Originally Posted By: away
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No Rod ]
[ Image: (Un)Buried Electrode ]
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Andrew Way
Keystone Residential Inspection Services PLLC
817.441.9598
www.keystoneinspections.com
No Rod ]
[ Image: (Un)Buried Electrode ]
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Originally Posted By: mcyr
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Good question for Joe Tedesco. He is the expert.
Find out from him, he is excellent.
He is now in the Electrical section I believe.
Marcel
Originally Posted By: jtedesco
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250.56
Originally Posted By: away
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Joe,
I see I got my terms wrong. Dang it. 
I tried to find a rod but didn't. If you look at the first picture the GEC goes into the ground near the lateral conduit. The second picture was about 12 feet away. Another exposed section, of what I am assuming is the same conductor, is in between what is shown in the first photo and the location in the second photo.
Is just a buried conductor allowed to be used as the electrode?
I don't have the NEC so if you can paraphrase the section you referenced that would help.
Thanks again.
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Andrew Way
Keystone Residential Inspection Services PLLC
817.441.9598
www.keystoneinspections.com
Originally Posted By: jtedesco
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Andrew:
You probably found the conductor that was run from the first buried electrode (ground rod) that was connected to a second electrode (ground rod) to satisfy the rule, when the resistance was greater than 25 ohms, or because of the local inspection rules.
You should cover up the conductors and move on and simply make them aware of the possible tripping hazard.
Originally Posted By: away
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Joe,
Thanks for the info. I will check out the post and the NEC stuff as well as keep that bookmarked for future referece. Heck I ought to just buy the book and make it really easy!
I just wrote that if this was the sole grounding system for the home its effectiveness is suspect and recommended a qual. & lic. electrician evaluate and verify the grounding system and make repairs as necessary.
More than likely I will be back out to the house when I deliver the hard copy report and can get a chance to look for the UFER J-box. If that is there and the connection looks good I believe everything will be ok.
Thanks for the help.
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Andrew Way
Keystone Residential Inspection Services PLLC
817.441.9598
www.keystoneinspections.com
Originally Posted By: Thomas Ogryski
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Andrew,
It is fairly common in the area I live in for the grounding electrodes (rods) to be driven in the trench for the footer. Since the area I live in is called the Mountain State, some of these rods for a house with a basement end up being buried 8 feet or more, good luck following the grounding electrode conductor in search of a ground rod.
Tom
Originally Posted By: jpope
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?
250.52(A)(4)
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Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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It would have to be minimum 2ga copper for a ground ring
Originally Posted By: jtedesco
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… and the ground ring is required to be buried at a depth below the earth?s surface of not less than 750 mm (30 in.).
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Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
www.nachi.org/tedescobook.htm
Originally Posted By: jpope
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| jtedesco wrote: |
| ... and the ground ring is required to be buried at a depth below the earth?s surface of not less than 750 mm (30 in.). |
I see the 2ga requirement, but where do I find the burial requirement?
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Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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Joe quoted 250.53(F)
Originally Posted By: jpope
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Thanks. . .
–
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
“At JPI, we’ll help you look better”
(661) 212-0738
Originally Posted By: pabernathy
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ok…I will also be brief…since I am long winded in nature…
Rather I will explain 250-56 in laymans terms.....
1.) The reading of the OHMS to ground in the system must be 25 OHMS or less....now your local AHJ does not have to prove it....you have to prove it is NOT above 25 ohms.....so....
What has most AHJ's done....simply demand a second ground rod be driven to reduce the chance or issue....but Mr. Holt can tell you more on grounding than me....I think the guy wrote the BOOK on it.
2.) Now it says if it does NOT have 25 OHMS or less to ground you have to "augment " it with by an additional electrode....now many have aurgued that the Water Pipe ground is the augmentation....but many AHJ's disagree...I as well.
If the EC wants to fight the AHJ their are a few meters that clamp on to the EGC and read the OHMS to ground....BUT I find they still dont believe and say drive another....we demand it. ( may or may NOT be in your area.)
Now on the the UFER ground.....I like um.....( i use that freakin word again ) if the soil is dry yet gets some moisture and a good contact with the concrete system...it can retain the moisture and holds it longer...it really just depends on your location and situation.....
Ok.....back to sizes......we all know that a Ground Rod can be # 6 CU.....since it is man made ( 250-66(a) ) so in looking at the wire is it # 6 CU AWG ...or if the same builder built across the street and they have a UFER....see if the GEC is a # 4 AWG CU...as that is the minimum allowed on that installation.
Oh.....in the wire running across the ground...is it Atleast 6' away from the supposed FIRST and closest GC....if so....what size is it...which BTW can also be # 6 CU AWG.
Not sure how relavant to you report the info was...just wanted to elaborate on the section and article in the NEC more....
All HI's should have a NEC book in their vehicle.....many carry the Code Check Books.....they are references to code sections in the NEC...not a quick glance answer book.....they give you NEC articles to look up at the end of an inspection so you can proof your work and get better references...
I NEVER do an inspection be it electrical or otherwise without quoting my source....ie" Code Section or BOCA section and what have you.
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Paul W. Abernathy- NACHI Certified
Electrical Service Specialists
Licensed Master Electrician
Electrical Contractor
President of NACHI Central Virginia Chapter
NEC Instructor
Moderator @ Doityourself.com
Visit our website- www.electrical-ess.com
Originally Posted By: pabernathy
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P.S… Here is what a UFER ground is in case anyone did not know…a UFER is not the same as a grounding ring setup.
The term "Ufer" grounding is named after a consultant working for the US Army during World War II. The technique Mr. Ufer came up with was necessary because the site needing grounding had no underground water table and little rainfall. The desert site was a series of bomb storage vaults in the area of Flagstaff, Arizona.
The principle of the Ufer ground is simple, it is very effective and inexpensive to install during new construction. The Ufer ground takes advantage of concrete?s properties to good advantage. Concrete absorbs moisture quickly and looses moisture very slowly. The mineral properties of concrete (lime and others) and their inherent pH means concrete has a supply of ions to conduct current. The soil around concrete becomes "doped" by the concrete, as a result, the pH of the soil rises and reduces what would normally be 1000 ohm meter soil conditions (hard to get a good ground). The moisture present, (concrete gives up moisture very slowly), in combination with the "doped" soil, make a good conductor for electrical energy or lightning currents.
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Paul W. Abernathy- NACHI Certified
Electrical Service Specialists
Licensed Master Electrician
Electrical Contractor
President of NACHI Central Virginia Chapter
NEC Instructor
Moderator @ Doityourself.com
Visit our website- www.electrical-ess.com
Originally Posted By: pabernathy
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I REALLY have to start using Spell Check More…having to edit my errors is making me worry about my reports…glad I proof them…
–
Paul W. Abernathy- NACHI Certified
Electrical Service Specialists
Licensed Master Electrician
Electrical Contractor
President of NACHI Central Virginia Chapter
NEC Instructor
Moderator @ Doityourself.com
Visit our website- www.electrical-ess.com
Originally Posted By: pdickerson
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| pabernathy wrote: |
| I NEVER do an inspection be it electrical or otherwise without quoting my source....ie" Code Section or BOCA section and what have you. |
Paul,
Wow, that's gutsy! It is my understanding that it is somewhat dangerous to quote code in an HI report. The client might understandably assume that you are performing a code inspection of the entire home (plumbing, HVAC, etc.), making you liable for every code violation that you did not report on. The recommendations I make may be based on code, but I never state it that way. Example: "Missing junction box covers noted in attic. Missing covers at junction boxes are a shock and fire hazard. Recommend correction by a licensed electrician." I would not state in my report which section of the NEC this violates.
Originally Posted By: pabernathy
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Not gutsy when you are a trained, certified and licensed master electrician doing a home inspection that BECOMES a electrical inspection for a different fee. AS a licensed electrician I am allowed to switch into different GEARS under the LAW and give advice as a electrician.
Not a conflict because I do not FIX or Explain how to fix electrical issues that I am the HI for. My HI is basic but I happen to have a form I use for Electrical Inspections...as I stated...I do way more electrical inspections than general HI's........we get electrical inspection calls daily.
I am bound to this.......NOW if a HI is going to site something as a violation and list it in a report they really better be able to verify their source or WHY they are siteing it.
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Paul W. Abernathy- NACHI Certified
Electrical Service Specialists
Licensed Master Electrician
Electrical Contractor
President of NACHI Central Virginia Chapter
NEC Instructor
Moderator @ Doityourself.com
Visit our website- www.electrical-ess.com