I am assuming this water meter is in need of a jumper cable to be installed but thought I would double check with my fellow bretheren.
Grounding conductor is attached to plumbing pipe upstream of the water meter (between meter head and pipe going out to street). Am I nutts or does it not need a jumper since the conductor is not attached downstream of the meter…
If the ground wire is continuous from the street side of the meter to the main panel then there is no need of a jumper. They ground wire should be neatly installed and secured so the pic of the ground wire and pipe should not be a concern as well. (may need to be secured/supported better) I can not tell if the wire is spliced in the 2nd pic. (small screen)
What does the ground connections look like in the main panel?
I’m not sure I am in agreement. Just looked at my own water meter in my home and it has a jumper on it even though the main ground conductor is attached on the street side of the meter. Also see the following…
“…if the building water main piping is being used as a source to provide a ground for the electrical system, then the main ground wire between the electrical panel and the water piping should be clamped on both sides of the water meter.”
" We bond the building water pipe to the grounding wire on the street side of the water meter to be sure that the building electrical system is grounded to earth.We bond the building water pipe to the grounding wire on the building-side of the water meter to be sure that the building water piping is safely grounded too.This grounding wire should be continuous, through both pipe clamps securing it to the water piping before and after the water meter, and continuing into the main electrical panel where it joins the ground bus and neutral bus."
You had two different opinions not sure whom you’re disagreeing with.
According to the NEC, a jumper or some other means is required so that the continuity of the connection to the water pipe is not relying on the water meter.
Ok so I have been trying to understand this. The water piping is being used as the GE. The GEC is connected from the panel to the GE before the meter. If the hot and cold water bonding jumpers are bonded to the GES in the panel or to the GEC some where, wouldnt that make everything continuous? Then, you wouldn’t need the jumper across the meter?
I guess my real question is since the grounding cable is attached on the street side of the meter is or is not a jumper required? I’m getting different opinions. In my own home for instance I have a jumper, with grounding electrode connected street side of meter.
Seriously though I appreciate all the feedback. Seems I may have started a debate.
It’s starting to make more sense. Correct me if I am wrong. The water pipe is not being used as the GEC so you shouldn’t need a bonding jumper. If the pipes are properly bonded to the GES then any voltage from ungrounded conductors that contact a pipe will make there way back to the panel and trip the breaker. Right?
To be clear… I am not debating but making sure I understand this properly.
" We bond the building water pipe to the grounding wire on the street side of the water meter to be sure that the building electrical system is grounded to earth.We bond the building water pipe to the grounding wire on the building-side of the water meter to be sure that the building water piping is safely grounded too.This grounding wire should be continuous, through both pipe clamps securing it to the water piping before and after the water meter, and continuing into the main electrical panel where it joins the ground bus and neutral bus."
" We bond the building water pipe to the grounding wire on the street side of the water meter to be sure that the building electrical system is grounded to earth.We bond the building water pipe to the grounding wire on the building-side of the water meter to be sure that the building water piping is safely grounded too.This grounding wire should be continuous, through both pipe clamps securing it to the water piping before and after the water meter, and continuing into the main electrical panel where it joins the ground bus and neutral bus."
The ground wire is attached street side of meter which satisfies grounding the electrical system to the earth. My understanding is that a jumper is still needed in order to ground the plumbing system…?
Maybe that clears up my question? LOL!
Yeah so if the GEC goes from the panel to street side of the meter you have the street side bonding done and when you bond the hot water, cold water and gas pipes to the GES at the panel you have the building side done. No bonding jumper needed across the meter. Right?
Don’t know that I have ever seen it done that way. Almost always see a jumper at the meter which is why I raised the original question…
I am pretty sure there was no “bond the hot water, cold water and gas pipes to the GES at the panel”. Finished ceiling and I did not remove ceiling tiles…
There are two issues here, one being that the water pipe electrode must be used and the second being that the interior metallic piping system must be bonded. You can accomplish both of these things by running the GEC to the water pipe within 5’ of the entry of the pipe into the building and then install a bonding jumper around the water meter. If there is no pipe electrode (plastic water main) then you can bond the water piping system at any convenient accessible location.
Juan, you requested in another thread that I jump into this thread to help you understand the need for a jumper around the water meter.
First, I will tell you unequivocally, the water meter should have a jumper around it. The goal is to ensure the continuity of an earth ground. In a perfect world, that would be achieved by reliably connecting together all metal components in the house. The meter could be removed and replaced with non-conductive meter. Also, an existing metal-body meter may have a relatively high resistance. Without a jumper, the likelihood of the metal plumbing becoming isolated from earth ground increases. In a catastrophic failure, there could be a large potential (Voltage) between metal components.
We want all metal components to be at ground potential at all times, under any foreseeable circumstances. When all components are at ground potential, they are also at equal potential with each other. In the event of a catastrophic failure, and in a perfect world, there would be no measureable potential between any metal component and any other metal component and there would be no potential between any metal component and Earth. Now, keep in mind that this is the ultimate goal. It is what we would have in a perfect world. As a practical matter, we do what we can to maintain ground potential but there will always be a chance that a potential could exist in a catastrophic failure.
Ok, Let me start out by saying I have not read all the replies and I am traveling so heavy that I only scanned the responses and decided to reply.
Firstly, the bonding jumper around the water meter would be needed IF that GEC [Grounding Electrode Conductor] connection on the line side of the meter (on the side of the qualifying electrode) is also serving as the bonding requirement for a metal waterpiping system within the structure as well.
Since the poster stated that there was a bonding connection downstream of the meter to serve the bonding of metal piping requirements as detailed in the NEC then no bonding jumper around the meter would be required.
Now I will assume you recommended a supplemental electrode on the electrical system to suppliment the water pipe ground as just a good practice even if it was not required at the time of installation(which for all I know could have been in 1920…lol).
The concept of the bonding jumper is to maintain the path around the meter for the GEC is for example installed on the load side (for a lack of a better description) of the water meter which when removed would leave a broken connection between the electrical system and the grounding electrode.
Anyway…I have left out code references on purpose… and hope this helps explain the logic behind the jumper just a little better.
Based on Paul’s response Juan is on target with his theory and understanding of the subject. If water and gas piping is not bonded then a jumper across the meter would be necessary to assure a ground path. The supplemental ground rod is a good idea because water service lines are sometimes replaced by plumbers with no regard for the electrical system safety. I have found many hanging ground clamps after the water service was replaced.
Ahhh…its a good idea if the home was built in 1920 and a supplimental was not required. Remember I think like a Home Inspector when posting on this forum. I am sure you are aware I know it is required…however, it may not be present due to the age of the dwelling and so since home inspectors are not code officials or technical assistants they can make recommendations to enhance safety.
However if it was not required at the time of installation…home inspectors should recommend versus walking into the rhelm of code official.
