I see this thread is about using IR as a money maker for those immersed or fanatic about IR but what is missing is the Inspector that simply wishes to use it as another tool like a flashlight or ticker and simply is trying to find water/air intrusion.
I don’t get your point Bob.
There are many that fit that bill.
Why should they reply? They don’t care if they make money.
How do you think I got here?
I used IR for free (or $20) for a while.
Put one IR scan in every report, needed or not.
Nothing wrong with that if you have the $$$ for the initial investment.
I considered my first camera a better investment that paying a lawyer another $5k.
I never intended to get a payback on the camera.
But then there are those that think IR “Increases Liability” …:roll:
It increases liability if you market it as if you are going to find more than a regular visual inspection I would think in the sense you should scan all if you scan any.
Goes back to the old argument about if you should lift an acoustical panel or are you required to lift all.
Personally I think that it is silly to avoid anything that helps perform better because of such worries.
Not sure if the poster meant as a separate business since he has not elaborated what he meant as I took it he meant regular inspections rather than going separate business route which entails tons of classroom.
Very simple approach I don’t market or tell people specifically what I am going to find or not find. I just find problems report it with images in the report and the clients just keep coming. They just choose that guy with those funny pictures that indicate moisture or hot electrical panels. Bob I could go to Chicago or KC and do the same thing. They don’t even remember my name but they know me as the guy with the funny looking pictures. Try increasing your business with a blower door and smoke candles
Blower door and smoke candles Charlie?
Should I hang a few Black light posters to go with that? 
Damn , One year ago?
Never mind.LOL
David,
For those who are SMART, and IR camera will not increase liability. It may reduce it. But that’s not in every case. In fact, I’d wager that many inspectors use the technology and actually set themselves up for a lawsuit.
It’s in the process, and in the marketing. Start crowing that IR is the be-all & end-all, and you have painted yourself into a corner. Start saying how you are better than the next guy who doesnt have IT, and miss something, and you likely are staring at a lawsuit. Have an inconsistent approach to how and when you use the camera, and there’s more trouble.
And then there’s the marketing. You know… “See through walls”
So, yes… its good technology, depending on what you intend to use it for. But, it CAN increase your liability if your marketing incorrectly sets the expectations of the client.
IR is a completely different type of beast and should be treated that way. Yes it is good for HI and you should charge more but that is not the real potential of IR. You want to talk to commercial property managers and owners, explain the importance of predictive maintenance, find a potential problem before it takes out equipment. I did a roof job for the owner of a small strip mall, about 60K SF the property manager said he needed a new roof, I marked the defective areas and the roof was fixed for under $5K, got a bunch of referrals from that one. The same thing applies to small restaurants, deli’s or any other business that has ovens or refrigeration equipment. Talk to smaller engineering firms, architects, HVAC even home/commercial cleaning companies. ANY business that might deal with moisture or electrical problems which is just about everyone. I think you get the idea here. The applications of IR are only limited by your imagination. It is also very important to remember and state that IR is QUALITIVE it does not see through walls, it measures temperature anomalies. Hopefully you understand that, if not, time to hit the books first.
Good luck
In competitive markets, many inspectors are looking for the edge that sets them apart from others. When I entered the field eight years ago, the same arguments were being made for (and against) the use of moisture meters. Before that … it was digital photographs.
It’s all bunk.
In the end, a client pays for a complete, accurate and unbiased inspection report. It doesn’t matter what software was used to publish it — what tools were used to collect the information for it — or the size of the pee pee of the inspector who wrote it. It matters that it covers the necessary areas and contains verifiably accurate information. Period.
I have an infrared camera that I use for diagnostic energy audits. I don’t need to call myself a “thermographer” to use it any more than I feel compelled to call myself a “photographer” to snap a photo.
When I do a home inspection and feel a need for it, I use it without even informing my client. It’s a freaking tool, for crying out loud.
Unfortunately for me, ALL of us in KC are dropping the IR ball so to speak.
I’ve had inspector after inspector call telling me their IR has done NEXT to NOTHING for them in OUR market (Kansas City). They’ve tried selling the service, giving it away for FREE during a home inspection, raising their prices by $25-$45 per inspection AND advertising they’re using IR, etc.
SO far NONE of us are making it go. I bow to the guys in OTHER areas that are somewhere its WORKING for them / Ain’t seen it happening here residential or commercial. I would HOWEVER like to point out that quite a few of the GUYS out here in KC are on this Board OR ASHI’s or NAHI’s and they USE the IR’s AND we AIN’T seen any of our guys in OUR area doing anything BUT a very sporadic use of IR.
Too soon to tell from a simple dollar value. It’s more complex. If your purchasing thermal as an added service, make sure there is a market. Determine if you can justify purchasing a camera capable of performing in that market.
But honestly, how can you afford not to be behind the technology curve. I see my investment as part of the overall product I provide my clients. I am paid accordingly.
The inverse is to let guys with money to blow pay the big bucks as prices drop for the rest .:mrgreen:
I am sure guys with a Hummer have a marketing advantage over me and my KIA though the dancing Hamsters sure are cute.
Unfortunately Joe is probably quite correct.
I don’t like the perception that thermal imaging is a liability, however in many posts (even on this thread) we can see that inspectors that are not properly trained by properly trained trainers, can put themselves in the situation where they make stupid statements and build stupid websites that are incorrect and continue to distribute this inadequacy throughout the industry.
Infrared thermal imaging is not excepted by many veterinarians because the equipment was not technologically advanced, nor did it produce adequate results. To this date, you will find veterinarians that will not even entertain the thought of using thermal imaging (even though medical industry use it for numerous applications).
We must be very careful in what we say. John Mullarkey made statements such as thermal imaging is qualitative. No, qualitative is when you don’t know how to adjust your camera (in most cases). He also points out that applications for infrared and only limited to our imagination. Yes that is true, however in reality using your imagination versus science is not a basis for this industry. Lesson #1 of level III training is not to let your thermographers point a camera at anything that they are not well-versed on or do not have an appropriate authority standing by and working with them.
I’m not picking on John because it’s not his fault, considering where he obtained his education from (an uneducated trainer and camera salesman who actually “does not sell cameras”)? Website after website advertises all of the neat things that can be done with thermal imaging but only 1% actually know anything about what they are marketing.
I had to “convince” my insurance provider that thermal imaging was not a liability if properly trained and experienced. Gee, I wonder where he got that notion?
Hint: it was on this website.
If you live in Kansas and you can’t make a dollar using thermal imaging you’re simply not going about it the right way.
Owning camera equipment does not make your phone ring.
If you’re not educated and experienced in the application of infrared thermal imaging then you are not going to be able to sell your service (because you don’t know what it is in the first place).
So that throws " infrared certified training" in the trashcan. Mr. Bowers said that he was trained there. And John was trained there. Who else was trained there?
Before anyone stands up to support this ludicrous training, try explaining to me the View Factor, Albedo and the Arrhenius Equation with respect to home inspections. If you were taught these things then maybe I will listen to your argument.
Joe, I think this rests your case!
I know I personally get at least one inspection a month due to the fact I have this “tool” at my disposal. It found a leaking window today that would have gone unnoticed… (and yes it was checked with my meter, Duh)
The more I learn about my camera the more I realize what I have been missing or just how significant a roof leak has been for example.
I have also started getting more and more calls just for thermal. Have just a thermal inspection in the morning due to the fact the home inspector didn’t have one, and know the guy wants me to come out.
I have also turned away just as many people as I have gotten business from due to the fact I know I can’t help them. I told one guy it would be cheaper to cut a hole in your drywall and find the leak then it would cost me to come out to tell you what you already know. You know its leaking!
Found a roof leak 2 days ago. No stains and no signs. Just a wet spot
Today’s inspection found a few drops of water under the mini blinds along the sill. The thermal helped me find the areas of moisture quicker and evaluate the problem.
Best money I have ever spent. Well almost, I would be lost without my surveymaster.
No umbrage taken Dave and much of what you say is 100% correct. Training and understanding your equipment is essential. Do I go out and do equine thermography, nope same applies to 13Kv panels, will not go there either, not trained for it same with steam traps. Do I understand emissivity and reflectivity, yes. I worked on surface search radar systems in the Navy and have a good understanding of wave propagation which is somewhat the basis of reflectivity and emissivity, can you say stealth. I use Infrared Red within the scope of my level of training and understanding of IR and yes, I know how to adjust my camera and use different palettes depending on need. I do not allege or claim to have the knowledge of a level III thermographer nor do I advertise/present myself as such. However, detecting moisture (and confirming with my Tramex MMeter) locating poor roofing, using ASTM protocols, deficient insulation or excessive heat in a service panel, yes Dave with my electrician and PPE, is well within my comfort zone and was profitable while it lasted As Clint Eastwood said “a man has to know his limitations” and I know mine.
To be quite honest I did plan to take the level 1 training but took McKenna’s course first to see if I was comfortable with IR, a less expensive route of exploration all pointless now as an old Navy injury has reared its head, I am no longer able to work and am facing a bunch of surgeries, spinal, nuero you name it I got it. Still read all the white papers by Snell and Stockton, this forum and much more. So Dave, all said and done there are many guys out there using IR who are smart enough not to say it can see through walls and operate within their comfort zone of knowledge and expertise. As an analogy, I have a 28’ Sea Ray with twin 350 MAGS a very powerful fast boat that I can handle well up to 8’ seas. I would never attempt to skipper an ocean liner and doubt very much if the Capt of that ocean liner could handle my boat in rough seas yet we are both a Capt. As with the Capt and the thermographer, it depends on the application and your level of skill in what you are doing.
???
Ok, I’ll just let me shut up. It’s been a long *** day…
WTF are you talking about?
If your trying to impress me with your knowledge, please address my damn post.
Start with; What is “View Factor”? That is easy…
Your web site posts are bull ****!
Can I be more direct?!
I’m not picking on you. I have heart burn for the idiots running the show!
Maybe when I get over my “week” I will pick through your post and intention.
If you wish for me to pick you apart, just keep adding fuel to the fire.
Otherwise let the master of NACHI IR who fills you with alleged certification answer for you.
You are having a bad week, I can relate but the response was a bit crude. I’ll wait until your week is over, we can continue then.
Best regards,
John
Looking back on it, I’m sure many of the IR inspectors on this thread are right AND in KC we just don’t know how to market the service like they do.
Its amazing what goes over big and makes good money in one area GOES over like a big smelly turd elsewhere. Got a friend in Texas that was a 1 man shop then started pushing the 11th month warranty’s. Three years later he’s got 2 other inspectors and keeping 1 busy just on those alone.
In KC we got 1,500 builders and in June they collectively sold 102 houses. Out of the 7 Counties in the Metro KC area only 3 TRACK real estate sales AND clients names / addresses by NEW Construction and existing sales.
What that means is that IF you want to BUY a mailing list of people’s NAMES and ADDRESSES that bought BRAND SPANKING NEW homes 1 year ago from the List Broker groups - You can get it from ONLY 3 Counties in KC AND they were NOT the Counties with the BIG volume of sales.
So youse got 20 inspectors BUYING mailing lists that for the past 2 years consist of 50-110 names a month. Then these 20 inspectors mail postcards or letters to the same 50-110 people TALKING about doing a 11th month warranty inspection for them AND if a few of these folks RESPOND their ONLY question is / HOW LOW CAN YOU GO.
BUT it worked GOOD in Texas … WHY not in Kansas?
For the same REASON that IR has NOT gone over FOR any of the KC guys. We just cain’t talk good like youse slick chicks do.
I think I will start a IR marketing class and charge a measly $500.00 but I won’t sell any cameras;-);-)