HI
I found this forum by accident. I am hoping to get clarity on what exactly to request of the landladies who own this building. They dont have a clue about maintenance and I have seen some really shoddy work by the people they hire.
This is important to me to have good ventilation.
I have a williams 35,000 BTU stand alone heater… when I turn it on I get extremely high TVOC readings.
I have learned a couple things already.
the duct going from heater to wall is too small for that heater
the duct is angled down and should be sloping upwards.
I am confused if the metal ductwork is supposed to go all the way and extend beyond the roof of the building
…or if the rectangle shaped “housing/ flue” is adequate and the heater duct just sits inside it?
how do I know the cement (assuming) flue isn’t damaged ?
I tired to post several images but would only let me do one.
It appears that the b-vent was butted against the thimble and just caulked. That isn’t right. In a masonry flue, the vent should at least pass through the thimble. If I was to encounter this setup on a home inspection, I would recommend a full evaluation. Request a full inspection from an HVAC technician/installer from your landlady.
I attached a link to the installation manual. Page 14-15 shows different venting options.
It might have been passing through the thimble until I pulled it out to see if I could see any light up above.
“masonry flue” thank you! I am wondering if that may be cracked or damaged.
I am trying to learn as much as I can. I can request an HVAC inspection but they are more likely to send a handyman that installed my neighbors heater… she also has really bad TVOC levels. it wasn’t even caulked.
thank you for this guidance. I looked at the installation manual and my set up certainly looks different from the diagram!
how easy will it be to raise the thimble making a new hole and keeping the 100 year old masonry thimble intack? I bet the owners will put a smaller heater in so they don’t have to pay to have the thimble height changed.
There is solid debris in the thimble likely from the metal flue pipe and chimney material degradation.
Do not operate the heater until the issue has been evaluated and rectified!!!
I would be interested in CO readings. Additionally, these old buildings typically have no fresh air. Where does this furnace get its combustion air? Interior of the apartment such as a louvered door?
You don’t without an inspection. It appears to be old and without regular maintenance or care it is likely it has problems. The debris shown is already an indicator (gases cooling too quickly is often an issue).
Hire your own qualified person and send the landlord the results with a request to cure for safety reasons.
I ordered a CO monitor/ alarm that has a display of the CO level. I will try it out tomorrow.
do you think a regular CO monitor would be better? something handheld? any recommendations on one?
It would be great to have an inspection … that is what I asked the owners to do.
we will see what happens.
I will call tomorrow to see how much an inspection costs . I wonder if they will need to go into the other apartments? mine is on the ground floor and there is one above me and two on the other side of me. I know the one above me also vents into the same
masonry flue. some places wont do anything without the owners approval.
I know they like to cut corners and when there was a water leak and mold issue…they told the “inspectors” to cover it up… they literally had them plaster over a damp wall. saying " it isn’t wet we felt it" moisture meter I had was reading 100% !
good eye on that! thank you. I hope the owners do the right thing…
I have turned off the gas line that goes to heater.
when the gas line was on and the heater was off. .i put the air monitor next to the vent where it connects to the wall and I was getting high TVOC readings. Not in the 2s but much higher then the usual room air. something is really off.
I had the utility come out on sat and he checked the heater for gas leaks and didnt find anything… he said the heater seemed fine…but they dont check for CO nor the flue or connection. i was surprised he gave it a passing grade.
They did their job.
You on the other hand took on risk, in the form of liability, disconnecting the appliance from the chimney flue unless you hold a competency card.
this is from the owners:
“We are working on a permanent solution to heating. In the interim, we can loan you an electric space heater. I can provide the heater tomorrow (Friday, Oct. 27).”
it wasn’t really connected… when I noticed an issue with the air quality… I went to check the pilot light and since the heater wasn’t mounted to the floor I moved it away from the wall a bit so I could fit behind… and the vent came right out of the wall.
Oh great. We go from CO concerns to electrical fire concerns. Old wiring and electric heaters are not a great match. Get those smoke alarm batteries replaced!
I do not like the way this is panning out for you or your neighbors. I am not there, so I do not know the condition of anything. But those plug in heaters in old houses can overload things pretty quick.
I know. I have been here 13 years and have seen alot in this old building. I have 110 amps total. the safest thing to do would be to run a 12 gauge extension cord from the bathroom where I have 1 20amp circuit…
I called some HVAC places… 1 place said no go without owner consent
another place said they dont work on those types of heaters
3rd place was kind and going to send someone out for $125 which I thought seemed fair…but I wasn’t clear on how they would check the flue… it is a 2 story building.
thanks to this forum we have already determined it isn’t safe and what is needed at least in terms of the duct size and how it is to be installed.
I was afraid if the person went up on the roof and if anything were to happen… then would i be responsible since the owners didn’t sign off? i dont want anyone getting hurt.
I gave them the owners phone number… I called code and compliance and then decided not too.
I am exhausted and i dont feel well at all. glad it isn’t too cold. nothing is insulated here not even the windows but still not all that cold. My cat isn’t happy for sure.
I am not even sure how to reply to their suggestion for a space heater… I did get one last weekend… i had a feeling this would happen. I got one that I can adjust the watts so it pulls less amps. but still not safe.
Just don’t wait till it gets cold and you need heat. Your unit may get red tagged and your gas locked off. You’ll have to find someplace to live till they run another flue.
This is a joke !! the “professional HVAC technician said the duct was fine for the 4 " need and a larger one would not fit around the heater manifold or into the thimble … he said 6” was next size up. I don’t know if there is just incompetence there or if the owners are gaslighting me . the first guy that came out yesterday from the same company to get measurements said the heater was old and needed to be replaced… he showed me a picture of the 2008 complaince stamp saying that was the manufacturer date. which it is NOT … I called Williams and verified it was made in 2014 same year old owner had it installed.
he used his co wand to check for co leaks and it went off with flying colors long beeeeeeeep!! so he taped the connection of the 3 " pipe to the 4 " exhaust on the heater… he also checked the connection at the thimble. it not beep… he said that was connected to a pipe that went up the and into the roof. . I said no it isn’t … “oh” then there is a blower that blows the air out he said… “no” i said. the owner said they had the liners inspected when they bought the building in 2015… but is there a liner in that “flue” it looks like painted masonry to me from pictures i posted above. ??
after he taped the connection he tested again with his co meter. I asked the landlord about the duct size… and she got in my face and screeched “he is a professional HVAC tech he knows what a 4 " pipe is!” obviously not . i bit my tongue. after taping the co wand still beeped… “beep beep beep” it’s just too sensitive he said. the heater was running and the TVOC levels on my monitor were over 4.0 at this time. he said his meter was too sensitive and did not show the actual levels… then they wanted to use the smoke/co alarm combo I have … it didnt alarm… then we tested the alarm with matches… it still didnt alarm. THEN we went and tested one of the co alarms i had gotten from amazon on my old truck exhaust (very professional i know!)) and it went off !!
so this was a hallween prank or what? I shouldn’t make a joke…but I am so frustrated!! then the landlord said we’ll using gas for heat is going to give you high TVOC levels that is why we are switching to electrical. I told her I have only 110 amps on my breaker box. whatever.
the owner said that she has someone lined up for thursday I dont really trust them at this point… I mean … I went to the ace hardware and looked at a 4 " duct and a 3" duct and it is clearly a 3" duct on my heater- I tried to ask the owner about this and my concern with the HVAC diagnosis and she got really upset… yet her “professionals” were using an amazon kidde c0 monitor at an exhaust pipe to gauge whether or not the c0 monitor I bought would register CO since we had no idea how much was coming from the heater.YET was enough to trigger is “co wand” he said because it was a long steady screeching beeeeeep that is leaking a little but probably ok to use. …and that I am just sensitive and don’t like the dryness the air produces. I can show her my photos of the ducts from ace at 4" and 3 " I don’t think she will believe me. the guy at ace even said nothing about the pictures I was showing him looked right. I tried to get an hvac company out myself and they said they wont without the owner signing off. and if owners don’t want to spend money on this repair because they are planning to install electric heaters then this is going to be not an easy situation. I don’t know if I trust oakland code and compliance to access the situation. are there any alternatives? I feel bad asking folks. . here and I am in a huge quandary. thanks for your helps!! sorry for the typos…
just got an email from the owners “As the technician from the licensed company told you today, the heater installation is correct & according to specs. I have scheduled another technician for Thursday between 10 am and 11 am. I will be present during the inspection.”
i replied and offered to go buy a 4" duct so she can see what it actually looks like. I dont think she will like that.
Sorry to be blunt, but you have two options…1. call someone who has the authority to compel your landlord to correct issues; 2. Move. I don’t know anything about local rental ordinances, but the first option could compel the landlord to choose option 2 for you.
