This is a 3 yr old Heil oil furnace with side wall venting and the vent looks like a liner. This is exposed and very hot and yes (my client touched it). Other than a safety hazard and the compromising of a whole whack of floor joists can anybody tell by my crappy pictures if this is proper venting for oil. I sure as heck don’t like it but want to base my report on facts not my preferences.
To many things I do not like I would pass this on to qualified , Furnace ,and structer peole . No way I want to have my name saying this is Ok.
I am sure there are other things beside cut joices and drilled holes in Joices for me to be concirned on… Please keep us posted … Roy
Is that Black plastic I see for exhaust?
Thats part of my question Roy as I have not run across this setup before but I think the black is fan induced air to act as a suction right near the exit point. Do you think the other looks like liner material. Yes I told my client to call in an hvac tech to inspect and explain the install but NOT the same one that installed this mess.
That is liner material, could be damaged easily and not noticed until everyone wakes up dead from carbon monoxide. I hope there is no ceramic tile above the joists. Since when did hvac guys start comprimising structure? It used to be only plumbers. :roll::roll::roll:
Fourth pic looks a litle close to level too for exhaust. Could be just the pic.
There is a good chance it is approved as part a sidewall vent system that may go by the generic name of “sealed combustion, direct vent” system. The flex duct seen in the Maritimes serving oil-fired boilers/furnaces approved for direct venting is actually an insulated tube-in-tube version. See www.kerrenergysystems.com under products- Direct Vent. There is an animation of its operation.
Would that type of direct vent system be ok to be level then Brian?
Kerr do recommend the 1/4"/foot upward slope that is typical of naturally vented-by-chimney systems but the through the wall system section is installed horizontally. Since the Kerr is a burner fan driven system, it really doesn’t need the upward slope as does a naturally vented system… it’s airtight and the strong burner fan can blow the exhaust gases horizontally or even downward!! These direct vent systems are a new creature altogether!
Came across this on a 30 year old wood furnace on friday, could not tell if it was double wall. WETT certification coming up for it and main floor wood stove anyways, no liner in the clay flue etc.
A 30 year old wood furnace might not have ULC or CSA certification.
The flex liner is not considered appropriate smoke pipe for a wood installation. Flue pipe shall be 26 ga for 6" diameter and under; 24 ga for 6" to 10" diameter; engineered over 10" diameter
Hopefully the wood furnace and wood stove are on separate flues!
Surprisingly had a ULC label, brass one, very tarnished but it was there. I advised the client that the furnace may not be insurable as per wett inspection. And if it was, not for long. I’m sure the flex pipe was a handyman idea. There was an oil fired boiler about 4 years old heating an addition with radiant and a coil in the forced air wood furnace. I recommended he finish the rest of the main floor with radiant.
Yes, the stove was on it’s own insulated chimney.
There was also a 200 amp main breaker in 150 amp panel, they figured they needed it when they ran a 40 amp service to the garage:shock::shock::shock:
That’ll kill the insurance quickly!!
Were the boiler and furnace sharing the same flue?
*PS- there are a strict set of clearances to combustibles for hot /return air plenums and ducting if not tested and stated on the unit…may become another insurance issue.
Separate flues, boiler had a nice stainless insulated.
I think the wood furnace was being used as an air handler for the most part, it was in tact and wood stored in the basement so we have to assume it is being used for backup or to save on oil. Lots of little things, jet pump not hard wired, just plugged in. Vermiculite is being tested,some new window inserts with rot in the old brick mold and sills etc.
SO, the mentioned coil was in the supply duct of the wood furnace and not in the firebox/heat exchange area of the wood furnace. I misunderstood that…should not be a problem!
From what I read Charles I would be concerned big time sounds to me like a rub goldbelg set up .
I would recommend further valuation on any of these serious concerns .
And I expect there are many, impossible for me to do an inspection from a distance ,
and I think you seem to also feel there are many concerns.
All the best … Roy
Thanks guys, it’s been refered to proper trades for both systems, his insurance is demanding a wett cert anyways. I know we are not code inspectors and I mentioned that, however this is a mixed system and I told him it should be inspected and brought up to code if needed,very dangerous and expensive for a buyer to get into.
Chris, I’m missing it.
Are you saying that there’s some kind of loop created with the stainless flexible and the ABS - A loop in which there’s an in-line draft fan installed that is sucking exhaust gases back into the burner unit?
Do you have other pics?
Ben, I am expecting a call from the buyer as he is requesting a hvac professional other than the installer to explain everything and I asked him if I could meet them there as I would like know what the deal is also.
Ok I just talked to the re agent and the deal is done with no further explanation of venting or anything else. It specifically says in my report to have an hvac explain venting and re route if necessary, and I made it clear that it would be expensive to re route. I would think my client would have this checked before signing off.
Ben, if you look at the picture where the 4" abs ties into the insulated then through the rim joist to exterior. The abs is connected to a blower motor and the liner is connected to the flue.(first pic) Sorry my pics suck. I will take more pics for detail referal from now on.
Here’something from the Heil website…no installation instructions there though.
DV-2000™ Direct Venting Option
Most Heil residential oil furnaces can be installed with either traditional chimneys for venting or without a chimney by using the state-of-the art DV-2000™ Direct Venting Option. This can save you money on costly chimney repairs, while adding flexibility to new installations or electric-to-oil conversions. Advantages of the DV-2000 Direct Venting Option include:
- Integrated exhaust and combustion intake
- Use of 100% outside air for combustion
- Safety shutdown system that automatically detects vent blockage and shuts down furnace until vent is clear
- Compact terminal design that propels flue product away from the wall of your home
- Stainless steel construction for long unit life
- Venting approved up to 23 feet
- Ideal for new construction, off-electric conversions, and any application that requires elimination of a conventional chimney
Other than the framing butcher HVAC stuff this installation may be OK…instructions would be nice though!!
Not sure what Ontario code says but in Alberta ABS is not acceptable for combustion gas exhausts. PVC can only be used for exhaust of high efficiency furnaces and water heaters if it has a CSA approval number and “Approved for gas exhaust” clearly stamped on the pipe.
All the cuts and holes in the floor joist must have compromised the floor structure. I would call for a structural engineer to check the structure out. NACHI.TV has a good video on cuts and holes in floor joist. Keep in mind the NBC requirements for joists as well.