Is this Service Mast Installation Acceptable?

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#1

Originally Posted By: jtedesco
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For the HI, what would you have to say about this “service mast” installation?


Is this OK? Is it a defect? Yes or No?

How would you write this up?

![](upload://n2L9fZiLfqWPPnIRfDvx5mXEzf6.jpeg)

--
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

www.nachi.org/tedescobook.htm

#2

Originally Posted By: lungar
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Joe;


I would have to write up two things from that photo,1-service mast needs


bracing per utility req,s 2-larger drip loop,recommend a licensed electrical


contractor be contacted.

#3

Originally Posted By: chorne
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Hi Joe,


I would say that the measurment from the roof to the mast head
is more than 42" and needs a guy wire or support cable.

Carla

#4

Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley
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To me it looks like it is supported at several points up the brick wall, and I don’t see any way the water is going to enter the service mast as uphill as those wires are.


Whats the answer, Joe?

#5

Originally Posted By: jtedesco
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Service Masts as Supports.


Where a service mast is used for the support of service-drop conductors, it must be of adequate strength, or it must be supported by braces or guys to withstand safely the strain imposed by the service drop.

Where a raceway-type service mast is used, all raceway fittings must be identified for use with service masts.

Only power service-drop conductors are allowed to be attached to a service mast.

--
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

www.nachi.org/tedescobook.htm

#6

Originally Posted By: Bob Badger
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So the one in the picture is OK?


I can not tell if the other wire is supported by the mast or the building.

--
Bob (AKA iwire)
ECN Discussion Forums
Mike Holt Code Forum

#7

Originally Posted By: jtedesco
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No! The picture is NOT OK my comment points that out. The mast is not properly supported and the mast is used to support a communications line!


This is the the object of this discussion here for a Home Inspector to see and understand!

![icon_lol.gif](upload://zEgbBCXRskkCTwEux7Bi20ZySza.gif)

--
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

www.nachi.org/tedescobook.htm

#8

Originally Posted By: roconnor
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–
Robert O’Connor, PE


Eagle Engineering ?


Eagle Eye Inspections ?


NACHI Education Committee


I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong
#9

Originally Posted By: jtedesco
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See type of conduit and support rules!

–
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant


www.nachi.org/tedescobook.htm
#10

Originally Posted By: Bob Badger
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Joe as I said the picture is to dark for me to see, but that other cable may or may not be sported by the mast, it could be attached to the building for all we know.


There is no general rule that always requires guy wires in the NEC.

part of 230.28
Quote:
it shall be of adequate strength or be supported by braces or guys


Make the mast strong enough and no guy wires will be required.

The one question I have would be the coupling which may or may not be listed for use as a mast fitting.

In my experience local power company rules will be stricter than the NEC on mast supports. ![icon_smile.gif](upload://b6iczyK1ETUUqRUc4PAkX83GF2O.gif)

--
Bob (AKA iwire)
ECN Discussion Forums
Mike Holt Code Forum
#11

Originally Posted By: jtedesco
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Hey Bob:


Sorry, here's a better view, I was trying to accommodate a recent request on the board, but will not post pictures that are not clear again!



The coupling is considered as a weak spot, California People know what happens after the "Santa Ana" winds!

--
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

www.nachi.org/tedescobook.htm

#12

Originally Posted By: Bob Badger
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Joe, I agree with you 100% on the week spot, had I done this mast it would have been flipped 180 degrees putting the coupling below the supports and so much stress.


I do few masts but the ones I have done always have a full stick of pipe at the upper end. ![icon_smile.gif](upload://b6iczyK1ETUUqRUc4PAkX83GF2O.gif)

Bob

PS How about if I weld the coupling to the pipe?

Only kidding

--
Bob (AKA iwire)
ECN Discussion Forums
Mike Holt Code Forum

#13

Originally Posted By: jtedesco
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icon_lol.gif

–
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant


www.nachi.org/tedescobook.htm
#14

Originally Posted By: roconnor
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Bob Badger wrote:
There is no general rule that always requires guy wires in the NEC. ... Make the mast strong enough and no guy wires will be required.

Very true, but very hard for an HI to determine (see below)

jtedesco wrote:
Is Incorrect! ... Service cables "must or shall" not "SHOULD" be supported by straps or other approved means within 12 inches of every service head, gooseneck, or connection to a raceway or enclosure, and at intervals not exceeding 30 inches.

There are many NACHI Tips that relate to services. Each Tip gives a limited amount of info, and it's usually necessary to look at several to get the whole picture. I referenced that Tip as it included a rule of thumb for residential service masts with common materials, and there are other Tips that deal with the enclosure/drop installation and adjacent cable attachments.

Keep in mind that those Tips and the use of model codes are only a guide for an HI ... and why I only recommended the closer attachment spacing as that is more consistent with the IRC provisions. HI's are generally not highly trained in codes, and are not being paid or have the time to get into that level of detail for just one item on a typical home inspection. That makes using rules of thumb and guides (as well as sometimes assuming common materials or installation) a practical necessity ... and where something appears questionable a licensed professional is called in to make the detailed evaluation call.

They generally would not use mandatory language like that because they are not performing a code compliance inspection or have any clearly defined original installation requirements. That can be a very slippery slope for an HI. In addition to differing local codes, grandfathered installs, MRLS's, and local interpretations there are provisions for "alternate designs".

I myself, and other PE's, sometimes use alternate designs to get approvals for less restrictive installations, as model codes can be overly conservative/costly to be widely applicable. Completely legal and acceptable, and if someone came along and flagged that install using mandatory language they would be dead wrong ... ![icon_eek.gif](upload://yuxgmvDDEGIQPAyP9sRnK0D0CCY.gif) ... So an HI has to be very careful on how they write things up, and what they base that on ...

My intent is not to criticize, but to offer another point of view as I sometimes must look at things from different sides of the fence (PE, AHJ, and HI).

--
Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee

I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong
#15

Originally Posted By: Bob Badger
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Actually I think we are on the same page. icon_cool.gif


As the rules for masts are so varied from place to place, IMO if it "looks good" and looks like all the other ones in the area just mark it as OK and move on.

How an HI is supposed to know what each area requires or if the fittings are listed for mast use?

If it looks in danger of falling make note of it, if it looks solid move on.

JMO, Bob

--
Bob (AKA iwire)
ECN Discussion Forums
Mike Holt Code Forum

#16

Originally Posted By: roconnor
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Yes, I think we are on the same page again Bob … icon_cool.gif


With the second part of the post I was really trying to help Joe better understand the HI point of view. I would look more closely at any residential service mast over 5' tall without a guy wire tie back based on the NACHI Tip (from a widely used reference) as a quide ...

--
Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee

I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong

#17

Originally Posted By: jtedesco
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icon_rolleyes.gif

–
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant


www.nachi.org/tedescobook.htm
#18

Originally Posted By: roconnor
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Joe, I was pretty surprised by that response.


An HI is not responsible for "accepting" an installation, and for an existing installation it involves a bit of research into local codes and existing permits to define exactly what is the required legal minimum in order to put things in mandatory "shall or must" language. I have done that, and also applied the general hazard provisions as a codes official ... but it's just not part of a typical home inspection.

I am all for safe installations and using the latest standards and model codes as a guide ... but for an existing home they are indeed a guide for an HI, and they do not have the legal authority to mandate that.

Just my opinion and 2-nickles

--
Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee

I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong

#19

Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley
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To further Robert’s point (I think, and in my own cynical way) If I am inspecting a house built in 1980, with no additions, looks the same as the other houses in the neighborhood and the mast is 5’ tall just like all the other ones, I will only write it up if I see some sort of failure. It most likely must have passed the AHJ when built.


I do write them up when I see things like I saw just last week. A mast only 18" tall with the incoming service wires 6" above the roof, or the one that was 3' tall, but leaning at a 45 degree angle because it had no support and was bending the top of the meter box.

#20

Originally Posted By: jtedesco
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Please tell me where?
Quote:
NACHI Tip (from a widely used reference) as a quide ...


--
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

www.nachi.org/tedescobook.htm