I need some “illuminating” here… There is a “time-line” in the life of any dwelling that we may encounter during a home inspection.
One scenario would be of an old house and then if the kitchen counter has or has not a receptacle here or there, we tested and recommend a GFCI 6’ from water sources, right?
Another scenario is an old house that was renovated, updated kitchen, looks newer materials, but we have no history on when was redone. Then it was a functional working kitchen when we landed there. Therefore, we see, note and report if the receptacle is working as explored not and again recommend GFCI if not present 6’ from water sources.
On a third scenario, the dwelling is brand new, moving ready, but never previously occupied. The buyer wants a “home inspection” and we are there to do take care of the task. But the house was already ‘code inspected’ by some other professionals. So are we inspecting the house or supervising the city/county inspector’s performance as per NEC? This is a gray area to me. Taking note that, there was a Licensed Electrical Contractor, Master Electrician there before us, and also the City Code Inspector to grant the permits as the construction evolved forward and a final inspection was performed to safe living conditions under that roof… so are we the goddesses inspectors there to certify the “certificators”? or to follow the Home Inspectors SOP?
All men on deck…! I appreciate anybody’s feedback.
The island outlet information is simply to prevent a HI from putting his foot in his mouth. Were he to continue telling the client outlets were required on new build kitchen islands (for either new construction inspections or 11 month warranty) he would get pushback from the builder and or a realtor (if one is involved) and the client is none too happy to be in the middle.
AHJs miss items all the time. They probably have all of 20 minutes to do each inspection.
Good post Pedro,
But I must push back just a little. I rarely find electrical defects in new builds, but it has happened. The most common issue I have found were loose receptacles, I also found a receptacle that tested reverse polarity, the buyer told me he had requested that particular receptacle be installed after the house was already completed, so my guess was, is that they sent the new guy back to install it and he missed. I found one that didn’t have any GFCIs installed for the kitchen receptacles.
But these are rare finds, but IMO is the reason why our clients hire us in the first place. I have found many other issues with new builds but we’ll stick with electrical for the purpose of this thread.
Like I stated earlier, if I find a receptacle installed in the sidewall of an island, I’m not going to call it out as a defect unless it is damaged, improperly installed, improperly wired, and or not GFCI protected.
As home inspectors it’s good to know the basic codes, especially as far as safety issues are concerned, but IMO common sense along with knowledge and experience is a far better tool in a home inspectors tool box than memorizing the latest code changes, especially the ones that don’t make any sense.
Kevin, nice post. Also the hard part about inspecting electrical code requirements is that they chanage every three years. And many jurisdictions are not on the 2023 NEC which covers the new island/peninsula receptacles. Also it depends on when the project was designed and permitted. Around here we may have new construction dwelling complexes that were designed and permitted under the 2017 NEC and are just being completed in 2024.
I don’t think we are allowed to discipline children any more. I know we’re not allowed to determine their gender. That’s for the child and their teacher to decide.
Appreciate the discourse and the confirmation of how I was interpreting the changes. I know we’re not code inspectors, and we can all make our own decision on how we want to report on issues, but I like to know what direction contractors are getting from their respective codes so 1) I can determine if there was a legitimate reason for what I am seeing, and 2) I can defend any position I take and what counter-argument I might receive. I also think this is a dumb change, but I inspect new homes often so I want to be clear and correct when I explain to my clients what is going on if I see a home that follows the new code.
The state of Florida does not agree with you. For that matter, neither does the state of Ohio or any other state that licenses home inspectors.
The average time to become a journeyman in the five core mechanical construction trades is four years. Secondary trades are usually at least two years. That’s just to learn the basics. Double those numbers for master practitioners. Now, compare those numbers to what it takes to become a Home inspector.
It is naive and unreasonable to expect a person whose trade can be learned in only a few months to have the basic minimum knowledge that skilled practitioners of other trades would have invested a minimum of approximately 30 years to learn just to learn the basics of all the trades.
I’ve encountered too many wannabe code inspectors. Many get their knowledge, such as it is, from a series of what appear to be children’s books. They literally carry them around with them.
I’ve been doing construction consulting and forensic work for 25 years. I’ve worked for every major insurance company in the US and many government entities. I have never had a need to cite building codes. Home inspectors would do well to stay within the boundaries of their actual qualifications, not something that they want to be but are unwilling to work to become.
I really have no idea what the latest code is that the city of Cincinnati has adopted, or even what code adaption this house would fall under being that the permits were pulled most likely in 22 or 23, regardless, I don’t see this inspector writing up receptacles that I find are properly installed in islands anytime soon, if ever. But that’s just me.
As for the missing receptacles at the sink, good eye, it threw me for a loop too, same in the kitchen. They’re installed under the cabinets and this is the first time I’ve seem them installed like this, I’m guessing for aesthetics.
Ah, thanks for the additional photos. Yes those under cabinet receptacles are acceptable if they’re 20" or less above the countertop. I dont know why people think that wall receptacles above the countertop look so horrible but many do. Personally I don’t see that island receptacle as particularly hazardous.
Not exactly a craze as it is just a loophole to get around the new requirements and…
Homeowners are not gonna allow their expensive Granite to be hacked up for “in-counter” receps,
and the (typical) Contractors are not willing to do the install for such a stoopid requirement… not to mention the potential damage to pricey countertop materials!
