Originally Posted By: rray
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Never fail to check out all the labeling in the electric panel.
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Home inspections. . . .
One home at a time.
Never fail to check out all the labeling in the electric panel.
Originally Posted By: nlewis
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Your’e right, Russ. I’ve found many “hidden” subpanels by looking at the panel directory.
Originally Posted By: rray
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Good point, Neal. But look more closely at the labeling and the circuits. It might “light up” your eyes, so to speak.
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Home inspections. . . .
One home at a time.
Originally Posted By: jmyers
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Neal,
I believe Russel is refering to the fact that the main disconnect is being serviced by two single pole breakers. 
Joe Myers
Originally Posted By: rray
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Look even closer.
It's not the clearest picture, but you can see that the two-pole breaker is 100 amps and the two single-pole breakers are 20 amps each.
Now which do you think is the main guest house disconnect, the washer breaker, and the dryer breaker?
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Home inspections. . . .
One home at a time.
Originally Posted By: jmyers
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Russel,
You don't take the panel cover off, do you? Since I do I would have able to verify if they were installed incorrectly or just labeled backwards. Either way, it should be corrected.
Good Catch.
Joe Myers
Originally Posted By: rray
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We do take the inner cover off to look at the wires (after all, we do want to know about that aluminum stuff).
The labeling was wrong.
The Realtor was just aghast because the seller had a long list of quite-specific disclosures concerning all the "licensed" work that had been done by the seller's friends.
As I explained to the Realtor, many times people do have friends who are licensed to do work. Unfortunately, many people resort to friends in an effort to save money. They sometimes do this by hosting "work parties" where everyone shows up and does their thing while they're cooking, drinking, and chatting. So things sometimes get done incorrectly by all the licensed people doing licensed work. I call it "WUI."
The Client jumped in with, "I guess that's why we hire home inspectors."
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Home inspections. . . .
One home at a time.
Originally Posted By: nlewis
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How many times has someone at a home inspection said " Why would you need to take the cover off the panel box to inspect it?"
Sometimes it’s difficult to hold back the sarcastic retort to questions like that!
Originally Posted By: rray
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At least they labeled it!
http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/Labeled.jpg
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Home inspections. . . .
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Originally Posted By: rray
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Ever since Dennis joined the board, I’ve been running into electrical stuff that I’ve never seen before.
Here's two pictures of this panel. Unfortunately, the labeling was not visible with the panel cover on.
http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/EPlabeling00.jpg
http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/EPlabeling11.jpg
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Home inspections. . . .
One home at a time.
Originally Posted By: Dennis Bozek
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Golly Russ that is very common these days. When they rope a house they drop the home runs down near the panel and mark them on the end as to what the home run does. Typically, when they install the home run into the panel, they leave the markings so that later, when they do the finish, the sparky doing such can properly label the panel. Now the thingies on the breakers are a bit too much but again, it is commonplace these days.Actually, it is a rather good thing to have for as panel ID's become worn and faded, the sparky can always rely on those marks.
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This information has been edited and reviewed for errors by your favorite resident sparky.
Originally Posted By: rray
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This was just finished construction.
So what you're telling me, Dennis, is that San Diego might be catching up finally to what is "commonplace" in Ohio?
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Home inspections. . . .
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Originally Posted By: dbush
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Russel, I have to admit, it is commonplace here in SW Missouri (Ozarks), now if I could just find an electrician that could spell, but that is a different story.
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Dave Bush
MAB Member
"LIFE'S TOUGH, WEAR A HELMET"
Originally Posted By: Dennis Bozek
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Russ, I think what we have here is a snow bird sparky. That would be a sparky that got tired of -10 degrees and a foot of snow every December so he moved to sunny San Diego. –
This information has been edited and reviewed for errors by your favorite resident sparky.
Originally Posted By: rray
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Next question, then. Do ya’ll (there’s my Texas-speak coming out) label the breakers in the panel so the resident knows what they go to?
I was just amazed that the wires were labeled like this but that the resident would have to take the panel cover off (six long, long, long, long screws) to see which breaker operated which circuit.
The service disconnect was located outside--
http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/ESE1.jpg
--meaning that to get to it from upstairs, one would have to fall down the two sets of stairs that had inadequate rise, get splinters in one's hands from trying to grasp the ungraspable bad wood handrails at the exterior front porch stairs, then finish up the job by getting more splinters in one's hands from trying to grasp the ungraspable bad wood handrails at the front sidewalk stairs, then run around to the side of the house cussing because of all the splinters in one's hands, then jump up on a four-foot retaining wall and turn the power off.
I recommended that with a gazillion circuits like this, they might consider having an additional disconnect added to the panel upstairs.
Also, take note of the siding on this house. Most anything I inspect here is stucco. Occasionally, we find houses fniished in stucco, stucco, stucco, or stucco. Sometimes, stucco.
Real wood in San Diego in new construction. What's going on? Help!
Nibblin' on sponge cake
Watching the sun bake
All of those tourists covered with oil
Strumming my six-string
On my front porch swing
Smell those shrimp, they're beginning to boil
Wasted away again in Margaritaville
Searching for my lost shaker of salt
Some people claim that there's a woman to blame
But I know
It's nobody's fault
I don't know the reason
I stayed here all season
Nothing to show but this brand new tattoo
But it's a real beauty
A Mexican cutie
How it got here I haven't a clue
Wasted away again in Margaritaville
Searching for my lost shaker of salt
Some people claim that there's a woman to blame
Now I think
Hell, it could be my fault
I blew out my flip-flop
Stepped on a pop-top
Cut my heal had to cruise on back home
But there's booze in the blender
And soon it will render
That frozen concoction that helps me hang on
Wasted away again in Margaritaville
Searching for my lost shaker of salt
Some people claim that there's a woman to blame
But I know
It's my own damned fault
Yes and some people claim that there's a woman to blame
And I know
It's my owned damned fault
Margaritaville, Jimmy Buffet
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Home inspections. . . .
One home at a time.
Originally Posted By: Dennis Bozek
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Russ,
Everything here is real wood but the other day I was at a office building and they had STUCCO on the outside   !
Anyway, doesn't the panel have a main breaker in it? Where is the meter too?
No panel identification is a code violation!
All circuits shall be marked.
Add too many disconnects and it could probably get rather confusing for even a sparky.
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This information has been edited and reviewed for errors by your favorite resident sparky.
Originally Posted By: rray
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The panel in question in my original post did not have any sort of disconnect in it.
Is that all the code says? "All circuits shall be marked." Because all circuits are marked! Just not in a useful way for the resident.
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Home inspections. . . .
One home at a time.
Originally Posted By: Dennis Bozek
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Russ,
No I do believe it states that the circuits will be marked/identified on a circuit directory located on the panel door.
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This information has been edited and reviewed for errors by your favorite resident sparky.
Originally Posted By: rking
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Gentlemen,
That sparky could have come from wayyyyy up here in the frigid north too!
It is common practice for the sparkies to mark the home runs, and occasionally even the singles and doubles  , like that in new construction or panel upgrade work.
Captain Kirk, Are you sure that was real wood? Maybe it was just some really creative stucco work
BTW, How is the transporter work coming along, the temperatures are starting to drop up here
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Muskoka Home Inspections
"Wisdom is the Anticipation of the Consequences"
Steering Committee Member At Large
Originally Posted By: ecrofutt
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If the main disconnect is outside, then wouldn’t this be considered a sub panel in which the grounds and neutrals should have been separated.?
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Erby Crofutt
B4U Close Home Inspections
Georgetown, Kentucky
www.b4uclose.com