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61

Originally Posted By: jfarsetta
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Guys (including Dennis),


Nick makes valid points with regard to sub-agency in a realtors world. Thankfully, sub-agency is quickly becoming a thing of the past. There is a category of realtor known as a certified buyers agent. Vicarious liability holds an entirely new meaning where the buyers agent (which gets officially recognized at the beginning of the RE relationship with the buyer here in NY) screws around.

But, as to marketing to brokers and agents, how's this one... Did an inspection via referral from a successful realtor (associate broker) from a large office today. First time she referred me. I was suggested by another agent. This new woman referred me to her client, to inspect a property that her best friend's son made an offer on. Think she was looking for a shoddy inspection for this kid, or a soft-sell? Probably not!

Three hours later, she had learned something about heating systems she had never seen before. I found everything from rodent droppings in the attic, to Harry the Homeowner in the electrical panel. I went into the crawlspace and came out with a handfull of dead bugs I swept off the sillplate, so I could look at them in true light. She was friggin' amazed that I did this. She and the buyer gathered around like kids at a carnival game.

PS; I hope she referrs me again. Maybe she will and maybe she wont. Maybe this was the first real inspection she ever saw. I cant say.

BTW: Nothing I saw was significant enough to scare the buyer, who followed me the whole time. He needs an electrician. He needs a handyman. He needs a new stove. He's happy. Without my visiting that RE office and soliciting business, this realtor would never have seen me in action. Now maybe, just maybe, I'll get some follow-on business. And maybe, just maybe, I'll piss her off some day. All I know is that I provided a valuable and thorough service to a buyer who may have simply tossed the dice when looking at some "list", or in the yellow pages for an inspector.

Me thinks we are beating a dead horse...

62

Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Erby:


You win again. But I must know: What is the difference between regardless and irregardless? And if there is a difference, when should I use which?

Nick

63

Originally Posted By: ecrofutt
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


First thought is to review the “Announcement” at the top of each forum.


Second is,

If I tell you, you'll remember for awhile.
If you buy a new dictionary and look it up, you'll remember for a logng time.

On topic:

I solicit realtors to put my name in front of clients, period. From there, it's all about the client. Do I get realtors who won't. Sure. But it's funny when you get the buyer working with that agent, finding you elsewhere, and then showing up at the inspection. It makes it interesting when the realtor rolls their eyes and says something like "Not you again." I would respond with something like. "Gee, I'm sorry you didn't get your commission off the sale of that last house, but I felt that properly educating the buyer about the house was more important than your commission!" Both comments, said in front of the buyer and seller, could result in a rather red flushed face, a little gasping, and stomping off.

Thare are good agents, bad agents, good HIs, bad HIs. But hey, life goes on.

Life is wonderful, consider the alternative.



Erby Crofutt
B4U Close Home Inspections
Georgetown, KY
www.b4uclose.com

64

Originally Posted By: dsunday
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


To All,


I announced my “Grand Opening” two weeks ago. Got my insurance through FREA. Posted my signs on my vehicle. Generally started talking inspections to everyone I met. I pick up my kids at school everyday and come in contact with 3 or 4 RE agents. One has already given me a referral, scheduled for tomorrow (my first paid inspection) Another has promised her next deal to come to me. Additionally one of the “moms” just put an offer in on a house and has asked me to pencil in an inspection for next Saturday. This is all pretty much personal contact, word of mouth. Just like many of you said! Now I need to put my skills where my mouth is. I have also hooked up with two local professionals to do Termite, Radon, Water, and Mold inspections. We will cover a home from bottom to top like an army.


Thanks to all,


Dj Sunday

65

Originally Posted By: jmyers
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Dennis,


I am dissappointed you posted a link of a botched inspection as your reply.

It really makes me think this was to limit the competition so you could charge more for inspections.

I would be happy to debate this with you in an open forum, like this BB.

Since I am looking at this from standing back here, I have to say it looks more like a marketing ploy that you used to gain popularity and success.

Comments?

Joe Myers

66

Originally Posted By: rwills
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Joe M,


Ah! There are some you say. Far and few between. You bet I know ZERO. Well. unless you consider my area far, I know of at least a FEW. Yes three that I have met personally two of which are basically one man operations and the other fairly large. Two are getting almost 100% of work through a single agency that somehow finds a way to use them exclusively for the most part. The other through a few exclusive agencies. All three have been sued by buyers in the last couple years, One to the tune of $20,000. All three are members of the same HI org. (No not NACHI!). All of this coincidence? I think not. Amazing what a little research will bring up. Not only does it help find out what the competition in your area may be doing, it may also help keep you out of trouble. I think there are solid view points from both sides of this fence, I just happen to believe wholeheartedly in consumer protection and that like the agencies mentioned above, a buyer should not have to walk in and take a gamble that they may or may NOT be referred to a good, qualified, inspector!


By the way! Joe F. Me thinks you're right. I got out my horse club at the beginning of the thread.

67

Originally Posted By: jmyers
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Bob,


What exactly does them having pending lawsuits prove. Everyone is sue happy these days, does not prove a thing. I have not walked into a real estate office that has not been sued for one reason or another.

If these businesses have certain people they like to use, I do not know of anything unlawful or unethical taking place, that is the bottom line. You think real estate agents should be limited to? Making the entire business listing available to every client? Make sure every business is on that list? Make sure your name is at the top of the list? Steer business your way because you think you do a better job? Steer business your way because you feel you write a better report? What non sense....they can choose to do business with whoever they choose, just like you and I. What is the difference? NONE.

Did you ever stop to think they are on that list because they do a good inspection?

I noticed you side stepped the real questions. What inspectors are in what agents "back pocket"? Which inspectors "candy coat" reports so agents will use them?

Bob, I am asking for proof. Do you have any? Do you know of any? Are you sure you are not making an issue where on really does not exist?

Joe Myers

68

Originally Posted By: denni
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Joseph Myers wrote:
Dennis,

I am dissappointed you posted a link of a botched inspection as your reply.

It really makes me think this was to limit the competition so you could charge more for inspections.

I would be happy to debate this with you in an open forum, like this BB.

Since I am looking at this from standing back here, I have to say it looks more like a marketing ploy that you used to gain popularity and success.

Comments?

Joe Myers


Joe,

You asked for one example, and I provided it for you. The court opinion was not so much about a bad home inspection as it was about how an inspection company provides two different types of inspection depending upon where the referral came from. (Read the last couple of paragraphs of the case.) That was the opinion of the court not mine.

Based on the comments I have read from you and your reaction to the court case, neither I nor anyone else will change your outlook on the inspector / agent relationship. Maybe PA is different from the other states, however, all the expert witness cases I have been involved with have dealt with multi-inspector firms who cater to the real estate companies.

Some inspectors preach that how or what other inspectors do is their business, but when my cost of doing business (E & O insurance) jumps 50% in one year without me making a claim, then it becomes my business when certain other inspectors are causing this increase.

Dennis
69

Originally Posted By: denni
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Joseph Myers wrote:
Bob,

What exactly does them having pending lawsuits prove. Everyone is sue happy these days, does not prove a thing. I have not walked into a real estate office that has not been sued for one reason or another.

If these businesses have certain people they like to use, I do not know of anything unlawful or unethical taking place, that is the bottom line. You think real estate agents should be limited to? Making the entire business listing available to every client? Make sure every business is on that list? Make sure your name is at the top of the list? Steer business your way because you think you do a better job? Steer business your way because you feel you write a better report? What non sense....they can choose to do business with whoever they choose, just like you and I. What is the difference? NONE.

Did you ever stop to think they are on that list because they do a good inspection?

Joe Myers


Joe,

I think your perception of the role agents play in the home inspection process is flawed. You stated: "What non sense....they can choose to do business with whoever they choose,"

There lies the problem. They are not doing business with us, nor us with them. We are doing business with the people who hire us and pay us. Let's remove the middleman from the home inspector selection process. The profession will eventually be recognized as a "real" profession by the public when inspectors are no longer subservient to the agents.

Dennis
70

Originally Posted By: rwills
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Joe, Like I said, If I didn’t know of any I would’t mention any! Sure, I’ll tell you who these agents and people are and I guess if you contacted them they will tell you that’s what they are doing right? NOT! Like I stated, The only inspectors that I think would worry about agents having to offer up a list of other GOOD inspectors would be the ones working in the best interest’s of the agents to get more work, or the ones who are used exclusively because they have an “in”. You keep stating that we want to steer business our way because we “do a better job” or “write a better report”. Is that what scares you? I’ll agree with one thing, let them (the Buyers) decide, not the agents. I guess ny question would be, “If you thought someone would come in and do a worse job, or write a worse report than you, then why would you care at all? What do you have against leveling the playing field? fear of losing work? fear of competition? Here’s a thought! you’re against ASHI because they make it hard for new inspectors to get in! me too! But, agents can make it hard for other inspectors to get in! I say both are wrong. Oh by the way, maybe, some of those law suits are a result of pleasing the agent and hoping the buyer overlooks it too! After all, if you’re getting all the work, what’s a couple of small law suits? Settle out of court and keep going! THAT"S what I’m against. You ask " Did I ever stop to think they’re on the list because they do a good inspection?” Great question.and of course I stopped to think it, actually they should all be on the list because of that reason. Unfortunately, I think the number on these lists for that reason are low at best!..Bob

71

Originally Posted By: dbush
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


I was trying to stay out of this, but…


Yesterday afternoon, I got a call from a local agent that said I need a home inspection for my client. I said okay. Their client is in Northern Missouri, around KC and will not be down here for until after closing. Without the agent to find a reputable inspector for them, or doing an internet search, which most older people do not like to do because they like people, how is it recommended that they find an inspector? I enjoy the agents that I work with, I have found them all to be very professional and interested in helping their clients.

--
Dave Bush
MAB Member

"LIFE'S TOUGH, WEAR A HELMET"

72

Originally Posted By: jmyers
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Dennis,


So it is your opinion and that of the court, the client received less of an inspection because of the inspector/agent relationship.

Further you believe this is so big of a problem it should be addressed with legislation which would prevent these types of relationships?

I am one for giving my opinion if you haven?t noticed so here it goes. While I can say with some certainty this probably does happen in every state, I don't believe this could ever become that large of a problem which would require legislation to prohibit it in any.

This particular case seems to be more of an inspection company marketing ploy to gain and/or impress clients than provide an independent evaluation of the property which is what got them in trouble in the first place.

This really does not have anything to do with the agent, it has everything to do with the fault of the company to provide the client with good advice. It involves a bad marketing strategy which set different standards for inspections and did it in printed form.

The consumer in this case must have been extremely upset, look at all those zero's behind that first number. I am one for justice...this goes beyond justice. This was about money....who can sue for more and win.

The marketing strategy was flawed, should be changed and granted hopefully will not happen again.

Your marketing strategy seems to evolve around this, stomp the competition and charge more for your inspections. You in my book are just as guilty as them. The separatist attitude will cause more harm than good for either industry. The agent is not the enemy, companies that willingly set different inspection standards are to blame.

What about MA. Is there any case in MA which involves the inspector/agent relationship? Was it that big of a problem in MA? Do you have buyer agents and seller agents in MA?

Replies welcome.

Joe Myers

73

Originally Posted By: jmyers
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Dennis,


There is no flaw in that perception. Anyone can do business with whoever they choose. If a company finds these companies do a good job and want to pass that on to clients, who are you to tell them who should and should not be referred. Free enterprise is a word that comes to mind. If you want to be on their list, you have to follow their rules. That does not mean you have to change your inspection or overlook issues. I have never even had one imply I should, have you?

I, like all others, pass along the names of companies that I have had good dealings with. That is a no brainer for me. If I don't like them, I don't give out their name. That is just the nature of business.

I do not think of the agent as a middleman. More of an ordinary person that passes along the names of companies that provide what they consider a good value. Everyone does that just about every day of their lives. Do you?

Finally, it is my opinion that there are just inspectors out there just starting out that simply can not afford to look past every avenue from which they can aquire jobs. They simply can not afford to pay for yellow page ads, newpaper ads, radio ads, television ads and direct mailings. The starting inspector would be the hardest hit by this type of limitation.

Comments?

Joe Myers

74

Originally Posted By: dbush
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


I find it hard to believe that Dennis can fault the realtor in the case that he is sighting anyway. Unless I misread it, the agent was the BUYER’s aunt. What does this case have to do with any kind of a relationship between agents and HIs? Honestly, Dennis what is your point with this legal reference?

–
Dave Bush


MAB Member


"LIFE'S TOUGH, WEAR A HELMET"
75

Originally Posted By: jmyers
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Dave,


The flaw was not with the inspector/agent relationship, it was with the company marketing which set different levels of expectations for inspections depending on the client.

I agree with you that not only is this scarce but it really has nothing to do with the inspector/agent relationship.

Joe Myers

76

Originally Posted By: dbush
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Joe, I wholeheartedly agree that was the flaw with homemaster or housemaster, whichever it is called. However, they are truly the exception, not the rule. I guess I am just going to have to stay away from this subject.

–
Dave Bush


MAB Member


"LIFE'S TOUGH, WEAR A HELMET"
77

Originally Posted By: jmyers
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Dave,


You are right on the money, I consider them the exception rather than the rule also.

Joe Myers

78

Originally Posted By: Rusty Rothrock
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What a great discussion. I’m new to NACHI and I’m loving every second of it. This message board is awesome. I check the board every morning around 6:00 and sometimes again at night. Congratulations to all of you who are spending your time and effort in making this message board what it is, along with making a strong national inspection organization of NACHI. I’ve only been a member for a week or so and already I’m proud of my affiliation and the inspectors who are members. I feel like I know many of you already just by reading your stuff for the past several months. To all of you out there, keep up the good work!


To be honest with you, I'm a little surprised about all of this discussion concerning Realtors. I have a wonderful relationship with all of my Realtors. They all respect my abilities, my knowledge, and my job responsibilities, they know I'm going to call things like I see it, they know that I'm not going to knit pick common cosmetic defects, and they know I will do an excellent job for the Purchaser (my client). I get about 97% of my total business from Realtors. I've been a HI for 5 years and I now have 158 Realtors who give me most of their work. This obviously doesn't happen overnight. It takes time to weed out the non-professional Realtors, it takes time to find the agents who are top shelf, it takes time to farm Realtor offices in looking for the agents who you would like to do inspections for.

Obviously, when one is first starting out in the HI business, you take any inspection you can get your hands on. But as time goes on you'll find agents who are professional and easy to work with, and you just love it when they call to line up an inspection or to give you the name and phone number of a Purchaser to call. Now think of that agent for a second...now multiple that agent by 50, or 100, or 150, you pick your own number. Think about having 158 of them like I presently have. I'm always swamped with work. Here it is the end of January, it's been snowing off and on in Richmond for the past couple of days, it's been in the 20's all week, and I've done 14 inspections so far this week, I have 3 to do tomorrow (Sat.), and I'm already booked up until Thursday of next week.

I guess what I'm trying to say is... I don't look at Realtors as the bad guys. I respect their occupation, I'm proud of their positive opinion that they hold of me, and I pray that each of them will continue to grow and prosper (which means more business for me). As time goes on, each HI needs to tailor make their own network of professional Realtors, building it one at a time.

Best Regards To All Of You, Rusty

79

Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Dennis:


You said "lets remove the middleman (REALTOR) from the home inspector selection process"

I ask why?

It appears that you are worried that the REALTOR will steer their own client/buyer toward a patty-cake inspector. Is this why? If so, I will address this, but I didn't want to put words in your mouth.

A REALTOR (buyer's agent) helps the buyer find a closing company, title insurance, lender, and more. And of course a REALTOR helps the buyer find a home. Why shouldn't a REALTOR help his/her client find an inspector too?

Purchasing a home is a rare event for most buyers. They need, want, agree to, and deserve all the help their experienced REALTOR can give them.

An attorney is analogous to a REALTOR, just another agent or as you say: "middleman." I wouldn't want my attorney to tell me "I'm afraid of getting sued so I'm not going to point you in the right direction." It makes me sick when one of my fellow REALTORS is so afraid of negligent referral suits that he/she won't speak up when their client unknowingly chooses the worst inspector in town.

NACHI is to the inspection industry what the NAR is to the real estate industry. Not all inspector are members of NACHI, not all real estate agents are REALTORS (members of NAR).

I believe strongly that every buyer should have both a REALTOR and a NACHI Inspector working for them and WITH each other.

Nick

PS Thanks for coming on the message board. Your views have given me a lot to think about and reconsider.

80

Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Dennis:


On another subject. Members Bob Patterson, Joe Farsetta, and a few other members are forming an ethics committee. I being primarily in operations would be under the direction of this committee and so would not have a seat on it. I am proposing that you join this committe. I think you would be able to contribute much. All members (except staff) are welcome.

Thanks.

Nick