Mold/Fungus in attic space

Originally Posted By: Dave Johnson
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I purchased a house in November of 2002. During the inspection we found mold in an attic space above the garage. The inspector pointed out that there were no roof vents in this area. We also found out that the dryer vent was deteriorated so that the dryer was venting into this space.


I immediately replaced the dryer vent and just recently put in to roof vents (time flies when you are having fun!).

I noticed that there was mold still on the rafters and on a couple rafters and roof was a yellow fungus type substance.

Now that I have properly vented the dryer, and cut a couple vents, will the mold and fungus "die"?

Anything else I should do?

Thanks,

Dave Johnson


Originally Posted By: jpope
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Mold requires warmth and moisture to survive. If you are sure that you have eliminated the moisture, there’s a good chance that it will die.


I would recommend remediation rather than waiting for the mold to disappear.


--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738

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Originally Posted By: Kenneth Sitzes
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Hi,


I though that mold could create it own environment to keep grown? I was under the impression that mold live on the wood an it an would keep growing that it made it own moisture an keep going is this wrong? I thought that you had to clean it with bleach to kill it? Am I under the wrong impression.


Originally Posted By: Dave Johnson
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I’m no mold expert, but I have heard from a mold expert that bleach won’t do the trick on porous surfaces as mold has roots…so on porous surfaces such as wood, concrete, etc., he said that Boron was the true killer. boron could be used in a product called borox.


I'd like someone to comment on the fungus that is also growing in this attic. It is yellow, has some thickness to it, and is covering a few square feet. What exactly is it, and now that I have cured the dryer venting problem and provided roof ventilation will this fungus not be amongus any longer?


jpope - what is the remediation you suggest?

Thanks,

Dave


Originally Posted By: ekartal
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Dave,


The yellow fungus is also considered mold. The extent of damage before you added roof vents will likely determine whether the moisture will ‘dry out’. Often, the rotted section of wood has to be replaced.


Erol Kartal


Originally Posted By: jpope
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Dave Johnson wrote:
jpope - what is the remediation you suggest?


This largely depends on the extent of the infestation and subsequent damage. As Erol suggested, it may be necessary to remove the affected lumber.

Bleach may kill some mold(s) as will borax, however, if the mold is highly toxic, you need to do more than just kill it.

I don't "do" mold. Maybe one of our resident experts will chime in and give you some better direction.


--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738

Originally Posted By: Dave Johnson
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I wonder if I should go in there with a scraper and scrape off that ‘fungus’ to help the wood dry out?


Originally Posted By: ekartal
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Too hard to tell from here icon_wink.gif. I’d say an inspection from a NACHI member in your area


Erol


Originally Posted By: ekartal
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Wood soaks moisture like a sponge. If you scrape it off, there is still possibly moisture beneath the surface. Have it checked. This is not something to speculate on.


Erol


Originally Posted By: sramos
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Hey Guys-


The mold must be removed (remediated, abated, choose your term). Killing the mold with bleach will only make the problem worse. When mold dies it drys up and aerosolizes (sends tiny particles into the air). This airborne mold is what will cause you to have allergic or "toxic" reactions when it is inhaled.

Proper remediation techniques includes setting up containment, demolition, abatement, air filtering, HEPA vacuuming, and clearance testing.

This is not a job for handyman, pest control operators, or inspectors. There are a few Remediation Certificates out there that have credibility. I would check with one of them that serves your area.


--
Steven Ramos
EnviroVue Home Inspection
866-541-2883

Originally Posted By: sstevens
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Hi guys. I think you missed an important point. This is in an attic. The chance of someone getting toxic mold exposure is very limited unless they actually live in the attic. I would not recommend remediation for unfinished spaces unless I owned stock in Servicemaster…


The yellow stuff is probably wood destroying fungus that can only live above 20-25% moisture content. Reducing moisture will not kill it, but it will stop it's growth and any related damage it may cause.

The mold can be killed by bleach or borax, but only with repeated applications.

If you havent' already, visit the EPA's website. Lot's of great mold info. You need to read the EPA's Mold Guide and Mold Remediation in Schools and Commercial Buildings before you answer any clients question about mold. Call the EPA for free copies! Visit www.epa.gov/iaq

I'm not a mold expert, and don't do mold testing.

Sayre Stevens
Elmira, NY


Originally Posted By: Dave Johnson
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Thanks for your response Sayre.


I wish to thank all those who followed up on this topic.

Sayre, your response makes sense, and was exactly what I was thinking.

I now have it ventilated, have the moisture source shut down, so this stuff should have a hard time making a living.

And you are correct about this being a health hazard, imo. It is in a section of attic space that I can seal off. I wouldn't think that would be a hazard to anyone.

Also thanks for your response to the fungus. I think I'll scrape that stuff off so the area can dry out really well. Someone else in the topic line said it was mold. It is definitely a fungus.

Dave


Originally Posted By: sstevens
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You are welcome.


Originally Posted By: rfeiler
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Dave; I am a lab certified mold Tech. Most of the previous advice is bogus. The only way you can correct the problem is to properly remove the material that has the mold and replace it with new material after you have corrected the water incurrsion problem. Mold IS A STRUCTURAL DEFECT as the hyphae or the roots are feeding on the organic material. If it is the type of mold (all mold is in the fungi family) known as dry rot the roots extend out 9 feet in all directions. There are over 76000 known types of mold so the color is not always a factor to what type it is. If you need more info I can ramble on all day. Ron


Originally Posted By: phinsperger
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rfeiler wrote:
If you need more info I can ramble on all day.


Ron,

I wouldn't mind hearing your rambling.


--
.


Paul Hinsperger
Hinsperger Inspection Services
Chairman - NACHI Awards Committee
Place your Award Nominations
here !

Originally Posted By: dvalley
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Ya Ron…Lets hear more.



David Valley


MAB Member


Massachusetts Certified Home Inspections
http://www.masscertified.com

"Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go."

Originally Posted By: rfeiler
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Paul and Dave you asked for it;


The problem of mold has been around a long time. The method to deal with it has changed little in 3500 years although our ability to identify spores and remediation steps have improved greatly.


There are two references in the bible to mold (Leviticus). They both state that that the contaminated material must be removed.


The population of Europe was limited for 500 years by endemic mold induced food poisoning called ergotism. The genus Claviceps and Fusarium infected rye kernels before and after harvest producing long acting toxic alkaloids which caused hallucinations and death.


The Irish potato blight in 1845 caused widespread famine by killing the plants.


Molds are part of the Fungi kingdom. It is the largest and least identified bio-mass on earth. There are 76000 known varieties with total estimates being as high as 1.5 million.


Mold does not make its own food like other plants rather it consumes the surface it isgrowing on. That is why it is concidered a structural defect. Molds are the bio in biodegradeable. They break down organic materials. Where do all the leaves go (other than blow into your neighbors yard)?


Molds do have some other benefits. Cheese, beer, wine, bread, and some antibioticts are derived from mold.


Mold indoor mold comes from outdoors. It floats in in the way of spores, and when it lands on a suitable surface it begins to grow. What it likes is a temperature between 32 and 104f, a ph between 3 and 8 and moisture. Some mold have been found in hot springs at 140 f. Humidity of 40% and higher or a moist suface is prefered.


Molds can be a wide variety of colors. The mold found on the tile in bathrooms is actually growing on the soap scum and dirt on the tile.


Molds can be single cell (yeast) or multicell like morels or s#!t.


We won’t get into the reproductive cycles unless you are ready for a nap.


Any two square inches of surface area contain 1.2 to 25 million mold spores. The best biocides kill 99.9%, what does that leave 12 to 250 thousand spores (just add water).


When molds are growing in large quantities called colonies they can become a health concern. They are divided into three groups; allergenic, pathogenic, and toxic.


Allergenic can cause allergic or asthmatic like symptoms


Pathogenic can cause serious health problems in people with decreased immunal systems.


Toxic molds can cause serious health problems in almost anyone.


When the environment goes dry mold can produce spores, release them into the air where the find another suitable surface to start all over again.


I can ramble all day I just cant type all day. Ther is more in the way of testing to be shared if anyone is interested.


Originally Posted By: rfeiler
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I noticed the system picked up on the the first four letters of the type of fungi I mentioned and kicked it out. It is of the Japanese variety. icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif


Originally Posted By: phinsperger
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Very interesting Ron. Thank you. Now a couple of questions


1) Of the 76,000 identified molds, What percentage would be considered allergenic? What percentage considered pathogenic and what percentage considered toxic?

2) What is the difference between Mold and Mildew?

3) Does mold not require a higher moisture content to get started than it does to sustain itself?

4) You said that when the environment goes dry that mold produces spores. Does that mean that if the environment stays wet that spores aren't produced? If so it would not be wise to remove a source of moisture until the physical removal of the mold was about to take place. Do I understand correctly?

5) When many types of untreated wood are left exposed to the elements off the ground it normaly turns grey. Such as barn board. Is this due to a chemical reaction or is this from a type of very fine mold?


--
.


Paul Hinsperger
Hinsperger Inspection Services
Chairman - NACHI Awards Committee
Place your Award Nominations
here !

Originally Posted By: rprogovitz
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Ron,


Good stuff you wrote! I was thrilled that the advice you gave was to NOT use bleach. I have been trying to get the word out on the "bleach myth for years, and do so in my book. I am BIG proponent of borate products…20 Mule Team Borax is THE best product for the homeowner/remediator to use!


I would like to add something to your brief “Mold Education” write-up.


Spores are produced when mold grows (has sufficient moisture +), spores go dormant when it doesn’t have a source of moisture. When water returns, the cycle repeats itself, unless you kill and remove the mold/spores.


Check out my site… it is full of MOLD stuff! www.fungibyprogy.com


Again, Good advice.


--
Progy