Mold Presentation at RE Offices

General Inspection Topics General Inspection Discussion
1

Originally Posted By: rkuntz
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I am preparing a presentation for Real Estate Offices on mold and the legal issues faced by agents. Does anyone have any info. on the subject or know where I could get such info. Thanks Ronkl

2

Originally Posted By: BEST Services
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I have some EPA guidlines and general info that I have shared with many RE professional’s.


Email me @

craig@BestCarpetCleaners.com

and I will email you the files in MS Word.

3

Originally Posted By: ecrofutt
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Here’s what I tell clients about the mold issue. If you are pushing mold testing, you probably won’t want to use all of it, however, you could use the internet resources listed to gain additional information for our presentation.



What appears to be mold or mildew is present. The identification of the organism(s) is beyond the scope of this home inspection. If, after reviewing the below information, you have additional questions or want further investigation, I recommend that you contact a Certified Industrial Hygienist, usually listed in the yellow pages under "Industrial Hygiene Consultants" to determine if there exists an ongoing climate for incubation or microbial contamination and that steps be taken to eliminate this climate.
Mold, mildew, fungus and other toxic organisms commonly occur in areas that show evidence of, or have the potential for, leaking, moisture intrusion and/or inadequate ventilation. Any area or item exhibiting such conditions can be a health hazard to some people. There is a lot of controversy over the issue of mold and mold testing. Neither the New York City Department of Health or the Environmental Protection Agency recommend measuring airborne fungal levels. The EPA publication "A Brief Guide to Mold, Moisture, and Your Home" states "Is sampling for mold needed? In most cases, if visible mold growth is present, sampling is unnecessary." Money spent on testing is not available for cleanup.

I recommend that information from the following sources be reviewed prior to spending any money on mold testing. You may want to identify and review other sources of information.
United States Environmental Protection Agency information available on the EPA web site at http://www.epa.gov/iaq/molds/moldguide.html provides a document titled "
"A Brief Guide to Mold, Moisture, and Your Home"
Various articles on the Building Science Corporation web site at: http://www.buildingscience.com Click on the link "Learn More about Mold".
The New York City Department of Health Web Site at:
http://www.ci.nyc.ny.us/html/doh/home.html
Use the search function for mold.
===============================

--
Erby Crofutt
B4U Close Home Inspections
Georgetown, Kentucky
www.b4uclose.com

4

Originally Posted By: gbell
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Check out Hometest. They have put together a power point presentation that is better than anything an individual inspector could do. They are really working to get the home inspector involved in the mold issue.


I did a condo last month that had a 3" circle of a black surface on the drywall. I suggested to my client that they have a test as it could be a form of mold. It turned out that the area contained three forms of toxic mold. One of which was Stachybotrys (The black mold that is in all the news now). If I had not had the training from Hometest or followed the recommendation of the EPA my clients would have moved into a very dangerous condition. As a home inspector I feel that are clients are hiring us to inform them of any conditions that could affect them or the property they are going to purchase. So to pass the buck on mold is not serving our clients and you are also passing up a great source of new income.


The condition in that condo turned a $200 inspection into $950 worth of mold testing.

–
Greg Bell


Bell Inspection Service

5

Originally Posted By: Ben Gromicko
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There are currently NO federal or state standards for the inspection, sampling, analysis or interpretation for mold. California has passed an legislative action forcing the state to develop a comprehensive standard of practice on mold inspections before May 2003.


There are several large mold association to join, but they cost a couple grand, when you include the membership, tools, air grab sampling machines, analysis costs, etc. But all of those self-imposed standards may mean nothing come next year when California makes a standard in the mold industry. And you will have blown alot of dough. Soon the EPA will follow Cali. with a federal standard on how to do mold inspections, etc. For now, just swab sample to confirm the prescence or absence of mold in one particular testing area in the house, and conclude nothing about the rest of the dwelling. :stuck_out_tongue:

–
Benjamin John Gromicko


Vice-President,


PEACH Inspections


NACHI & ASHI Member

6

Originally Posted By: Daniel Keogh
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I just completed the Level one mold assessors program. I found the program to be informative but it did not answer or address some very sereuous issuses. First: DOES YOUR INSURACE COVER YOU TO DO MOID INSPETIONS? Damage coused by mold could be beyond your cost to cure. ( since it may involve the long term health of people) Second:What do the resulst mean. With no fedral or even state standard the results form any mold test are to at least some degree worthles and could be miss leading. Picture yourself infront of a judge trying to explain the results of your test, and that you or the Laboratory that analized the sample accually interpreted the result. ( for any one that does not know. It is unethical for a testing laboratory to interpret there own results. The prossess of intepreting results and the impact that those results may have on humans is a completly diferent scientific process. This process hasn’t currently been complted for mold.) Third: Some question I think should be answered. What will the home buyer do with the results, and how will this effect the Real Estate transation? How will Real Estate agents veiw your company for ofering a test that the EPA advises against? Will Real Estate agents see you as helping there clients or just helping yourself? Just some things to think about. Be caeful

7

Originally Posted By: jmyers
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–
Joe Myers


A & N Inspections, Inc.


http://anii.biz

8

Originally Posted By: jmyers
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Dan, you could try this company. I recently came accross their flyer from my darling Jennifer.


Indoor Air Quality, Inc.
1-800-622-1095

--
Joe Myers
A & N Inspections, Inc.
http://anii.biz

9

Originally Posted By: Richard Stanley
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Don’t panic over mold


If it should appear, get the facts, react appropriately, and beware of ‘experts’


By Gailen D. Marshall Jr.


August 8, 2002


What do these things have in common: wine, penicillin, cheese, beer and mushrooms? Can’t guess? Here is a hint: It also is the latest dubious health scare, costing Texas consumers millions of dollars in higher insurance premiums and needless home “health” testing. It is being used as a get-rich-quick scheme for some personal injury lawyers. Ah, now you know - it is mold.


So how did this very common type of fungus, present in all sorts of good things we use on a daily basis and ever present in our environment, grow into a major consumer crisis? The answer may surprise you.


As a board-certified allergist-immunologist, I have taught, done research and seen patients with a variety of immune-based medical conditions for 14 years. In the past several years, my clinical office has become increasingly populated by very frightened, sometimes angry individuals. They believe, or have been told, they have “toxic mold disease.” But do they really?


First, let’s examine some facts about mold. There are many different kinds of mold - at least 10,000 common types. Mold is everywhere, because it simply requires a source of water, sugar and oxygen along with a friendly surface to thrive and grow. In places where a lot of water is in the air (like Texas), mold easily finds comfortable growth sites and is especially prosperous.


Is mold harmful to people? Can molds cause memory loss, fatigue or brain damage? For most people, the answer is a resounding, and hopefully reassuring, “No!” The world is filled with mold - we breathe it, we eat it, and we drink it every day with no ill effects. Some people do develop allergies and experience symptoms of asthma or hay fever when exposed to some mold spores. There also are a few mold-related diseases that can be serious, but those are rare.


So what about the “experts” who claim to diagnose all sorts of mold-related illnesses such as memory loss or learning disabilities? There is no proof to support those claims.


Still, even though health risks may be vastly exaggerated, most people would rather not have excess, visible mold in their homes. If there is a lot, it looks bad, and it has an unpleasant odor. But removing mold is relatively simple. If you have mold, you have excess moisture, and that needs to be eliminated, whether it is a roof leak, a shower leak or condensation. Often, the mold simply can be cleaned off and won’t return if the moisture is removed.


Should you pay for a “mold test?” No. The nation’s most reputable experts, including the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the reigning mold expert from Harvard’s School of Public Health, don’t support most home mold testing. If you see or smell mold in your home, clean it up and stop the source of water. It is that simple.


Should you panic? To me, this is the most important issue. You need to react to mold based on the facts, not on hysteria and hype. The mold scare already is having a troubling effect on the Texas economy and on individual lives.


Texas insurance rates already are more than double the national average and are continuing to rise based in large part on mold-related claims.


Moreover, families are being moved out of their homes by testers and remediators and having their lives disrupted - most for no legitimate reason.


The bottom line is this: If you are ill, see a physician. If he thinks you may have mold allergies, ask to be tested by a reputable specialist who has the credentials to provide calm, reliable medical information - then follow your doctor’s direction for treatment. Don’t be afraid to discuss with him why he thinks mold is causing your problems.


If you see or smell mold in your home, simply clean it up and plug the water leak. If you need an expert to help, find a reputable person or company trained in moisture management to find and fix the water source. And, perhaps most important, if someone comes to you to try to assess blame for the mold “exposure,” ask yourself whether you want the aggravation, expense and frustration associated with trying to get compensated for the everyday risks associated with living on our planet.


Gailen D. Marshall Jr. is director of the Division of Allergy and Clinical Immunology at the University of Texas Medical School at Houston.


Copyright 2002, Caller.com. All Rights Reserved.

10

Originally Posted By: jmyers
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Richard,


That was pretty interesting but I will never tell a buyer not to give me money for Mold Testing! :P

Joe Myers

--
Joe Myers
A & N Inspections, Inc.
http://anii.biz

11

Originally Posted By: Daniel Keogh
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Joe , Then at leat gt your self ceritfied by some org. But remember you could be subject to unlimited liability that youe have no isrance corerag for and that Real Eatate agent may loose respect fo you company. Good luck Joe.

12

Originally Posted By: jmyers
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Dan,


I can certainly understand your concern. But lets not try to make this "rocket science".

In order for it to be considered unlimited liability the person(s) suing would have to prove gross negligence which would not be easy with no standard present and even the experts disagreeing on the subject.

We are not trying to fraud clients into believing anything but as to whether they have mold in their home which could cause certain health problems.

When I say could I mean ask your doctor if you think mold is affecting you health. I for one am not a doctor. I could not tell you squat about what this particular mold will do, I just know its there.

You are confusing being a home inspector with being a doctor, which neither of us are. I for one certainly am not entertaining the idea of being a MD. or a DO. for all that matters.

I guess I am really trying to say, pass the buck to another expert when you are uncertain. You are there to protect the client after all.

Joe Myers

--
Joe Myers
A & N Inspections, Inc.
http://anii.biz

13

Originally Posted By: Daniel Keogh
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I am certainly not confussing being a doctor with being a home inspector. Good luck in court joe.:wink:

14

Originally Posted By: jmyers
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I am simply saying it really has nothing to do with luck. You are talking about clients suing for gross negligence. I have absolutely no intention of misleading anyone, especially my clients. I am simply saying if you intend to perform mold inspection let them know if they have mold and what kind they have. If they have health related questions you should send them to a specialist, like a doctor. This is not misleading to your clients as a matter of fact most appreciate my straightforwardness, although a little disguisted they are not getting an immediate answer.


Joe Myers

15

Originally Posted By: Daniel Keogh
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I Know you personay Joe and I know you would not miss lead your clients. I’m just not sre that will b enough. And I dowish you god luck. icon_smile.gif

16

Originally Posted By: jmyers
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Just stick with the facts and let the experts decide what is the best way to deal with what you have found. As in the commercial, “it doesn’t get any better than this”.


Joe Myers

17

Originally Posted By: rwills
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Before anyone thinks that mold is the pot of gold for HI’s They better realize a few simple facts: 1- There are literally 10’s of thousands of types of mold. 2-One little slight mistake trying to determine a single type could cost you everything you own and more. 3-Other than stating that there’s “Possibly a mold issue that should be evaluated by a specialist” is going out on a limb, unless of course you are a IH. Here’s one interesting site regarding mold lawsuits. Training and knowledge in this matter is a virtue, “Curiosity killed the cat!” http://www.chicagolegalnet.com/Toxic_Mold_Overview.htm

18

Originally Posted By: jmyers
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Bob,


Again I am not trying to rain on your parade. Certainly nothing can compensate for knowledge. But knowledge alone will not save you or any other home inspector from lawsuits.

Lets face some facts here....even the smartest and most skilled doctors are getting sued and losing. Smart will not save you. Advising clients of the facts will. If you are a home inspector you should be sending them to a specialist so they can find our first hand if this will affect them and how to proceed. Even I did not have to go to college to figure that one out.

Joe Myers

19

Originally Posted By: rwills
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I’m not saying knowledge will save you from lawsuits, but it will damn sure cut the odds. I’m also not saying to ignore mold, just point out that a substance that appears to be mold exists and should be examined by an IH. Now you’ve done your job as a HI and leave it at that. There are hungry lawyers out there that are just waiting for anyone to misrepresent the mold issue. Wishful thinking is walking through a poison ivy infested forest and hopin’ you don’t touch it. Knowledge is knowing what it looks like and walking around it. Fortunately, poison ivy is easy to identify, mold on the other hand with like I said 10’s of thousands of species is not. But don’t get me wrong, to each his own. That’s just one lottery I’m not playing!

20

Originally Posted By: jmyers
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Ok Bob,


But you should also stop driving, lots of drivers are getting sued. Don't ever hire anyone, lots of employers getting sued. Don't ever help a stranger, lots of good samaritans are getting sued. The list goes on forever.

The smartest thing you could ever do about mold, is send you client to a professional to identify and ascertain what this means to them. Play God and your dead......

In this business I would expect that it is not a matter of "if" I get sued, its a matter of "when". I for one am going to keep on truckin.

Joe Myers