Need Help

Originally Posted By: gbell
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Has anyone ever seen something like this.


When I turned the 60 amp off it shut down all of the 15 and 20 amp breakers below it. In all my years of construction have never seen anything like this. Having trouble adding photo any help for that also. Thanks




--
Greg Bell
Bell Inspection Service

Originally Posted By: Robert Patterson
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Greg,


Be careful, how is the 60A wired? Are the SEC's run to the breaker instead of the bus? If so you have a dangerous and illegal set-up in most cases.

Bob


Originally Posted By: jhagarty
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Deleted



Joseph Hagarty


HouseMaster / Main Line, PA
joseph.hagarty@housemaster.com
www.householdinspector.com

Phone: 610-399-9864
Fax : 610-399-9865

HouseMaster. Home inspections. Done right.

Originally Posted By: jmyers
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Greg,


It does sound like a split buss. In this case most, if not all, of the double pole breakers are at the top (it should not exceed six breakers) and the buss is then cut below with wires running from one of those breakers underneath the lower part of the panel and connecting to the buss. The lower part of the panel holds the smaller breakers (15 and 20 amp) and the power can be cut off to the lower part of the panel by shutting off the double pole breaker that controls it.

This scenerio is easy enough to detect. If you look at the breakers the wires will run under the other breakers in the lower part of the panel and connect to the buss. If you look at the picture you tried to post you may be able to see the wires going from the breakers to the buss underneath.

This was done to make the main lug panels comply with the NEC rule that requires the power to be cut off with 6 breakers or less in a single enclosure. 230.71(A) in the 2002 NEC if you want to read it for yourself.

Bob,

While I am sure I know what you mean when you say this could be illegal if the SE cable is running to the breaker, for the sake of those less fortunate it would be good if you could clarify that statement by explaining exactly what you are talking about so we don't confuse those less fortunate than us.

BTW....Greg if this turns out to be the case I descibed above it would be ok according the NEC codes to do (although I would have someone that knows what they are looking at go over it again preferrably with you there). My personal feelings on this is I don't like it. Someone was just trying to be a cheapo. If they are this cheap when it comes to something so dangerous as the electrical system there is not telling what else they did to try and save a few bucks elsewhere. If you have to, call the realtor and make an excuse to go back in there and take another look with someone that can help you.

On another note...I work for donuts and coke but the travel expense (round trip air plane ride) would surely kill your profits for the month. ![icon_biggrin.gif](upload://iKNGSw3qcRIEmXySa8gItY6Gczg.gif)

Joe Myers


Originally Posted By: Robert Patterson
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Joe,


I forgot (gets to be more normal everyday ![icon_redface.gif](upload://f7DX2EWhmUfsDapWaYT3oJHMCj1.gif) ) about the split bus. However, he may be looking at a back fed device that is not properly secured.

Greg,
Can you explain where the cables from the meter are wired in? And, is the 60A the main disconnect?

Bob


Originally Posted By: jmyers
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Bob,


You have probably forgotten more than I and most others here know! ![icon_biggrin.gif](upload://iKNGSw3qcRIEmXySa8gItY6Gczg.gif)

Joe Myers


Originally Posted By: nlewis
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Greg,


I would think twice about tripping breakers in someone else’s house. What if it doesn’t reset or they lose info from a computer, etc.


Originally Posted By: gbell
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First think all of you for your replies. Upon reflection it must have been a split bus. If I could post a pic you could see what I am talking about. I did tell the client that I had not come across something like this and really didn’t know what had been done. He needed to have a licensed qualified electrician come out and evaluate the service.


1. It was a FPE panel
2. The 60 amp breaker had two wires coming from it and soldered to the bus below on the same side.
3. No main disconnect.
4. The house was empty, that is why I flipped the breaker.


--
Greg Bell
Bell Inspection Service

Originally Posted By: ecrofutt
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FPE kinda says it all. Here’s what I tell the customer when I see an FPE.


A Federal Pacific Electric Company "StabLoc" electrical panel is in use. I recommend that this panel be replaced by a licensed electrician. These panels have been noted to present a latent hazard by malfunctioning under certain conditions resulting in a jammed breaker which afterward may not trip under load, failure of the bus connections due to inadequate bending space for the service entry conductors,and potential arcing problems.
There is controversy over these panels. While the Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) refused to recall the panels, they also refused to state that the panels were safe. . Some electricians say the panels are safe, other electricians say they are not.
Further information on this controversial equipment can be obtained at the following internet web sites.
Federal Pacific Electric (FPE) Panels, A Summary
http://www.inspect-ny.com/fpe/fpepanel.htm
CPSC Closes Investigation Of FPE Circuit Breakers And Provides Safety
Information For Consumers
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml83/83008.html
Electricians and Home Inspectors discuss FPE:
http://www.codecheck.com/FPE_breakers.htm


--
Erby Crofutt
B4U Close Home Inspections
Georgetown, Kentucky

www.b4uclose.com