Originally Posted By: nlewis This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Tom Logan,
Yes, I will be forthright and say I know somebody on the licensing board. We discussed this last year; Joe M might remember his name. ( Here we go again.)
I also know one of the course instructors. He does have a degree in teaching.
Joe F,
I concur with the example of the old house standing the test of time. I've seen countless old houses with virtually no attic ventilation with no signs of moisture. Heat buildup is a different story, though.
Originally Posted By: Phillip R. Hinman This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
To Tom Logan
I had 4 teachers for the 300 hours and 2 were "approved" by NJ so they say. I do not know if "approved " means teachers as in school teachers. I was told by the fellow running the school I attended that he had final say on who he hired to teach the class.
Several students told me that in the community schools code enforcement people were teaching some of the modules. How ironic since the code guys were left out of the grandfathering process!!! As well they should in my opinion.
None of the teachers I had were "educators" in the strictest sense of the word. Lesson plans ?????????
Since the horse has been let out of the barn NJ can't do anything about the inspectors they grandfathered. I suspect the industry and new insurance requirements will weed out those who can't do the job. Realistically someone with a vast amount of construction and inspection experience who only needs a "tune up" to become a good home inspector can only hope for some test to evaluate his qualifications. Others in the business now will never let that happen.
I don not know of any business where my experience counts "0". To earn money or get a license. I can get a RCS license and begin working immediately!! Some one did a great job of protecting their turf!! My hat is off to them although I want to strangle them!!
To Joe,
Come on Joe, ventilation is not an opinion. The codes and the industry will tell you exactly what you need. Because it is working while you are there does not mean it is servicing the building. How do you know that some of the stressed lumber sagging although the spans are acceptable is not caused by excess moisture in the building.
I know we do a performance based inspection and I respect that having worked in many old homes and seen $hit I can't believe is still standing! But as a professional you need to inform your customer what they are buying and give them some assurance that the construction in place will pass the test of time for which it is intended.
Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Phillip,
Could you clarify please. Do you mean to say that you as an inspector are going to walk into a house built in the 50's, and tell them that the ventilation is inadequate if there are no indications of inadequate ventilation? Are you going to tell them to replace the galvanized plumbing when no signs of corrosion exist and the flow is fine? I could very well be reading your posts incorrectly, and I apologize if I am, but it seems that you are going to tell buyers that if the house isn't up to todays standards that it is inadequate.
Originally Posted By: Phillip R. Hinman This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
But as a professional you need to inform your customer what they are buying and give them some assurance that the construction in place will pass the test of time for which it is intended.
Above says what I mean. If it is past it's effective life span-tell them, not that it will fail tomorrow.
Do you tell people their galvanized piping will last another 25 years???
Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Quote:
Do you tell people their galvanized piping will last another 25 years???
Of course not. I also don't tell them that it will break today. My job is to tell the buyer the true condition of the visible portions of the home the day it is inspected. There are obviously hot buttons. Polybutylene, K & T, etc.
I don't walk into an attic that is not ventilated to todays standards and report it as defective any more than I tell people that they MUST insulate the attic to todays standards. I will educate the buyer about what they have, and what they can expect. I have been in homes built in the mid 1800's with absolutely no attic ventilation, and no indications of problems. In fact, many of the rafters still had bark on them. Gable windows were installed at each end of one home which had been caulked shut for probably longer than I have been alive (and that's a while...no old jokes here).
I have seen many contractors come into this business over the years and fail. One reason is they can't or don't communicate effectively. Another reason is that they want to show off their knowledge and tell the buyer absolutely every possible ramification of every piece of minutia in the home. Go that route and failure is an option. I have also seen contractors come into the business with great knowledge and the realization of how it is supposed to be used in this business. One of them is a close friend of mine, and is in New Jersey now. He has done exceptionally well.
Originally Posted By: Phillip R. Hinman This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Thanks Kevin!!!
I think Blaine was picking on one part of my statement. Ventilation happens to be a very complex issue in a home and I think I would be remiss in not pointing it out to the customer as well as the impact such as lumber and roofing life spans.
As Neal pointed out heat build will take place as a minimum which will impact the roof shingles.
For the record I have been involved in new work where ventilation was a major issue at permitting. EVERYONE is paying closer attention today to it!!
Originally Posted By: Phillip R. Hinman This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Blaine
Ventilation and insulation have two very separate impacts on a home. Pick on something else!! Your are comparing apples and oranges. The NJ course spent a lot of time on ventialtion issues because there are long term consequences to it not being done properly. I saw one Saturday! As I'm sure yopu know ventialtion in older homes was less of an issue beause of lack of insulation and it ventilated itself through the inherent air leaks in the building!! I would only comment where appropiate.
If you read my previous posts I said someone with construction experience has an added value to the inspection. I did not attempt to set up an inspection business until I was finished the NJ course and had enough mentored inspections so I would understand what the industry was expecting from me.
It is funny you use the "show off their knowledge" phrase because I hear it as common complaint from realtors about existing inspectors or "they have to find something to justify their fee". Is this an industry issue as opposed to contractors in the business??
Originally Posted By: nlewis This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Phil,
I wish even more attention was paid to ventilation, especially for new construction. I can't tell you how many times I have seen ridge vents installed over solid plywood with no gap at the ridge. Or the ridge is blocked by shingles or felt paper. I saw a ridge vent the other day that was completely blocked by dust after less than ten years. Of course, the installation is critical to the effectiveness.
Originally Posted By: Phillip R. Hinman This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Thanks Neal for Your Concern!!!
I agree. While taking classes for my NJ license the teacher and textbooks put ridge vents and soffit vents as the gold standard! I told the teacher I disagreed. You already hit on one problem.
FYI I started in the business as a framer, framing contractor and then general contractor. Along the way I also became a level one roof truss, floor truss and wall panel designer. I also serve as VP for the Tri-County Construction Code Association although not a licensed official.
When setting trusses if you get the ridge to a tolerance of 1/2" your doing good. Then the sheathing must be place or cut to allow the maximum number of SI the ridge vent can provide. Then hopefully the roofer will be sure the felt hasn't covered up the opening!! This all takes place in a short period of time when supervisors are likely not to be there watching. Sorry perfectionists that's the way it is!
When all of the above must happen for the ventilation to be done properly, give me the old gable louvers any day!!! For such an important issue!!
In the end gable louvers in my opinion work best!! Opinion not fact.
Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Quote:
It is funny you use the "show off their knowledge" phrase because I hear it as common complaint from realtors about existing inspectors or "they have to find something to justify their fee". Is this an industry issue as opposed to contractors in the business??
Yes, this is an industry issue. A lot of it comes from know it all inspectors who went to a two week school, and lot of it comes from construction workers who came into the business because they thought it was easy money. You will find many inspectors who are nit pickers just to justify their fee, and they come from all walks of life. Everything from bankers to engineers.
I did not once disagree with you about the importance of ventilation. It is very important, and I have written it up many times over the years. As I said in my previous post, and I believe I added an apology if I took it wrong, It sounded to me like you were making the ventilation in an old home a defect. I am sorry if I took that the wrong way.
As for my background, I worked my way through college by working in various trades in construction. I have tradespersons throughout my family. I have done framing, been a plumbers apprentice, been an HVAC installer, and an electricians helper, mostly in the four years it took me to get my degree in construction management. I then threw that away and went into retail management for a few years until it made my hair hurt. Some people like to wear a tie. To me, it is a hangmans noose. After working as an assistant superintendent then a superintendent for a friend who was a custom builder, I took an ASHI approved course. I then bought a franchise in 1995, took their two week wing ding, and sold it in 2002. I have been in FL inspecting since then. I feel that my entire background has helped me. I can not only recognize problems and potential problems, but can communicate them effectively both verbally and in the written report. I certainly don't claim to know it all, and have learned many things from this board as well as other venues. Hopefully, the learning will continue for many more years.
Originally Posted By: Phillip R. Hinman This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Tom Logan
If you can get grandfathered it may be windfall for you. NJ had to extend the deadline to be licensed 1 year because not enough people applied for their license. I heard various stories in our class from the teacher, who helped in writing the law, so he says.
Issues included not being able to verify the required number of PAID inspections to guys just not following up. Neal may be able to elaborate on this.
NJ choose a 300 hour course using the Carson and Dunlop textbooks. 10 modules for each phase of the inspection. There is loads of great info in them but they repeat themselves as if each module was meant to stand alone! They are definitely aimed at those with NO inspection or construction experience. I was also told they choose the home study books rather than the classroom series ?? If so, why?? My guess is so they could pump up the hours to 300!!
To get an associates license you must take the course, pass the national exam and do 50 mentored inspections with a licensed inspector. Most inspectors who mentor want to get paid about $50 per inspection!! You lose work time and money under this scenario!!!! A very tough financial commitment!
After this then you have to do 250 supervised inspection while "employed " by a licensed inspector!! Some of the licensed inspectors are paying very low salaries AND making you sign a non compete AND a 2 year contract. What a windfall for licensed inspectors!!!
and they are getting employees better schooled and trained than ever in the business with very little in house training required!
Originally Posted By: jfarsetta This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Phil,
My point is that, while everything you state may be technically true, some of it simply doesnt exist on older homes. You spout all sort of technical information, and that's great. But, I suspect, these technicalities may someday create some difficulties of their own for you. Read Blaine's post and take heed.
-- Joe Farsetta
Illigitimi Non Carborundum
"Dont let the bastards grind you down..."
Originally Posted By: Ivor Bigun This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Ok mr Farseta,
now we all know wher you’re comming from:
Quote:
Guys,
I'm sick of this. Our newest member's name is ASCHMUCK. I mean, come on already. Can this be for real? And, if so, why wouldnt the guy post his full name? Its like making reservations under the name Aso Holee, or Luke Warmwater, or Richard Hurtz, or... well you get the point. There has to be a way to keep these folks out of here. Any ideas?
Between the Tom Logans, Dick Lovecchios, and all the other imposters out there, what is it time for NACHI to do?
Joe Farsetta
Advanced Professional Services Group, Inc.
Pearl River, NY
so you want to limmit this "open" board to nachi members only ??
Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Mr. Bigun
We would appreciate your not copying posts from the members only section and placing them in the non members section. If you are a member and the big red NO is incorrect, you should know better. If not Chris needs to build a bigger firewall.
Over time we have had several suspicious non members here posting rancid comments about this organization, while posing as people or things they are not. Joe F. is sensitive to that. We have had several thread discussions about censorship or adding a moderator, and I don't believe Joe has been in favor of them.
That being said, I'm sure Joe can and will speak for himself.