Some explain to me why Bushfart is allowed to disparage another members business without substantiation?
Aren’t you on the Ethics committee?
I never said you did…but you went from “shopper” to expert teaching others in a very, very short period of time. Since you asked so nicely, here is the “proof” you requested.
5/14/07…buys his first camera and intends to get training.
6/20/07…attends a class in Denver.
10/2/07…determines that national levels of certification are lacking and overrated (based upon a few conversations with fellow classmates) and warns against on-line courses.
1/8/08…Nick announces the new course.
The message board is where vendors are tested. You began to promote the idea of having other members pay you for a level of “expertise” that you now disparage others for having and who dare to challenge you. LOL.
Please, explain how others cannot also take this quick path from “shopper” to “professor” and profit from it.
Maybe jimmy can explain why of the many people who have taken John’s 16 hour course there don’t seem to be any complainers about the eduction they received.
Jim has an ax to grind as should be obvious by his behavior.
Keep up the good work John. 
probably because they don’t know otherwise!
Mr. Larson, Jimmy gets under my skin quite often! However, he seems to have his facts straight.
John is a master of promoting mediocrity!
John may purport to follow ASTN guidelines:
Respectfuly David you are running a much more complete IR business that goes far beyond the needs of a typical home inspector and his camera.
As one desires to provide more technical and demanding services more advance training is in order and you have done well to acquire that for yourself and your business model.
As I see it the providers of IR training have failed to provide a course that makes sense for a HI but they will happily take your money to teach you information you will probably have little use for as a home inspector.
You originally stated that I wrote the IR course in less than 2 months after buying an IR camera. You lie and your proof does not support this lie.
Here are the real facts…
- I purchased my IR camera in May of 2007.
- Nick announced the course was COMING (not complete) in Jan of 2008
- Will Decker (Level II) and I continued to work on the course for several months.
- *(InterNACHI® - International Association of Certified Home Inspectors) my first onsite class in Florida on April 2008 (one person for practice) and then a full class in Dallas TX on May of 2008.
I disparage those who lie about others, then buy a RESNET rejected IR camera, take no IR training, and sell their fake IR service to others… all the while pretending to be a know it all. What is wrong with this picture?
So far, several hundred have taken our IR class and there has never been a canceled webinar because of a lack of attendance. Our student approval rating runs at about 99.9%
Our IR webinar is not a recorded online course, but a live interaction class that seeks to meet the need of each student. It is never recorded and is always live.*
See post #28 for corrections to James’ lies. He said I wrote a course in less than 2 months after buying an IR camera.
I have always said that “more is better”. You even asked me if you could teach my IR class and have been mad ever since I said no. Why did you want to teach my class if it was so wrong?
I have never told anyone to follow ASNT guidelines (wrong again). Please show me the ASNT standard of practice for doing a residential home inspections we are suppose to follow? There are none.
There are different levels of inspections you can do. If you tell me exactly how you do them, I can show you a way to do more. Therefore it can be said your methods are inferior. But there comes a point that each inspector must decide what is needed vs the markets willingness to pay for it. You can spend 8 hours doing just the electrical inspection if you want, all the while you are going bankrupt. Balance.
The ASNT has not written a SoP for doing an IR home inspections and no state or association has approved any.
The vast majority of Level III ASNT thermographers cannot do an IR building inspection. Just ask them… Why?.. They were raised in other industries and not construction.
FLIR-ITC created their building science certification classes in response to the emerging building industry needs for an IR class. The ASNT level I, II, III were never created for building inspectors … because they did not even use IR for building inspections back then.
These facts were relayed to me by FLIR-ITC.
I was able to take John’s course in Toronto a couple years ago. I also took FLIR training.
The time spent in John’s class was much more beneficial to me. It was by and for home inspectors, and 100% of the time wa spent on home inspection related IR training. The FLIR class included firemen, contractors, restoration people and others, and only three home inspectors. I estimate less than 25% of the material covered was relevant to home inspections.
I am NOT an iNACHI member, but I very readily recommend John’s IR class.
Bill Mullen
Sarnia, Ontario
There ya go. Like many on this thread have explained, the “Level” scam designed to snooker money away from numeric rank suckers, has almost nothing to do with home inspections. Again, most of what you’ll need to correctly interpret the data from your IR camera comes not from what you’re pointing, but rather what you’re pointing at. That’s why the Infrared Certified](Infrared Certified® Certification Requirements - InterNACHI®) professional designation requires the completion of inspection courses.
Brandon asked a question in regard to a certain vendor and I responded to it. The threads from which I based my response have been posted. There is nothing in my response to Brandon or subsequent posts by me that I feel that I need to modify or spin. They say what they say.
In general, “certification” is a silly thing regarding a tool such as this, IMO. Now, for those who want to call themselves “thermographers” and have a need to impress other “thermographers”, perhaps this is a necessary path. But for a home inspector or energy auditor to use to find where they might need to apply a moisture meter, where there may be gaps in wall insulation, or identify a spot of air infiltration while doing a blower door test…the thermal imager is a handy tool but certainly nothing to build an entire inspection on.
Obviously, those who make the tool or sell the classes will feel differently about that…but this is to be expected because this is what they sell. What we sell is an accurate, thorough and unbiased inspection or audit report and this is simply another tool to use (or not) in compiling the data for it. Nothing more.
I don’t know about all of you, but I think most of us can agree that we can do an inspection without our IR cameras much more easily than we can without a flashlight. How many of you are “certified” in flashlight use…even though many have misread or otherwise inaccurately analyzed the images it has produced?
Gotta leave for “termite school” to keep my license current. Hope you all have a great day.
This appeared, today, in another forum that I belong to and was posted by guy who claims to be a “Certified Thermographer”.
The rest of the thread is a general urinating olympiad between “Level I” certified thermographers who are arguing that their level of skill is essential, “Level II” certified thermographers who are arguing that all that Level I thermographers are qualified to do is is to ask intelligent questions…and so on.
In other words, the marketing of cameras and schools is creating the same food chain that we have all seen within our own industry (ASHI members are good, others are bad…Licensing is good, unlicensed inspectors are a menace to society…Construction contractors make better inspectors, construction contractors are the one’s who screwed up the mess I am reporting on…etc). The question, I believe, is centered on whether or not I want to learn how to use an instrument in order to provide accurate reports…or do I want a “certification” that will impress my peers.
Not targeting this toward any particular person…really…but if it is possible for a guy to buy a camera and, within a very short period of time, be qualified to “certify” others; how difficult is it REALLY for someone of just average intelligence to avoid the obvious mistakes made in the case cited in the other forum that I copied, above?
I own an IR camera that I use along with a myriad of other tools to perform an inspection or energy audit. I am not a Moisture Meterologist, a Blower Doorographer or a Thermographer. I am a full time professional inspector who effectively uses the appropriate tool(s) to provide accurate, complete and umbiased reports to those who pay for his services.
Nothing more and nothing less.
This person is incorrect (whoever they are).
See **Here **for full instructions to become INFRARED CERTIFIED.
Regarding the debate on what kind of training and type of IR camera is needed for doing building inspections of different kinds, I would recommend the following… Do not buy the i5 infrared camera (non RESNET approved because of low resolution) and do not skip the IR training. Some people are foolish enough to do this (I am not mentioning any names).
What kind of IR camera did you buy and what kind of training did you take? If you prefer, you don’t have to say it in public.
I also took the FLIR Building Sciences Course with Larry Kage. 
Is it because Level 2 and 3 thermographers work primarily in manufacturing environments on predictive maintenance?
I think your on to something…
This isn’t entirely true, many level II thermographers are inspecting commercial buildings, flat roofs, and electrical scans. All these fall under predictive maintenance and pay upwards of $1000.00/day.
Level III is primarily a teaching certification.
If you do a head count, most Level II and Level III people do not come
out of the construction industry. A few years ago, there were extremely
few. We are seeing more in recent times, as the use of the IR camera
becomes more common in the building industry. Several years ago,
the manufacturers didn’t even make an IR camera expressly for building
inspections like they do now. This is what both FLUKE, FLIR and ITC have
told me.
This thread is awesome… I wish we could get some form of interNachi cage fighting game. Settle all these disputes in the ring with the weapon of your choice from items such as a moisture meter, an infrared camera, a flashlight, and even a blower door. Certifications could only be used for a bit of leverage and power-ups should you actually posses them.
A flashlight would be a good choice if your still using the mag lite but the impact resistance FLUKE used as a sledge hammer to drive the pins of a moisture meter into someones forehead would really do some damage.
Well said James. I recently attended one day of the IR INFO in Orlando, met alot of very intelligent people and also learned a good bit as well. While there I was able to scan the manual for level 1 IR certification. I know I will be hammered for this BUT the similaraties between that and John’s course are too close to explain. Granted there is alot more technical data in the level 1 but try this.
In the USN I worked on radar systems. I understand wave propagation, parasitic oscillations and can tell you what a magnatron does. I once beat a speeding ticket by challenging the Troopers qualifications in the use of a radar speed gun. HOWEVER the radar guys who actually used the repeaters/screens, tracked bogies, maintained the CIC board usually do not know a magnatron from a bridge diode and could care less. As an ET I understood how the systems work. The radar guy understood how to use the system.
My point is this, does the radar guy, Thermographer, need to know the electronics of the system or is it more important for him to know how rain, weather and the sun affects his screen ala emissivity, reflectivity etc. Did I as a tech type need to know those effects or did I need to keep the system accurate according to USN standards aka calibration.
We have two people both working on the ships’ radar system but they are two completely different breeds of cat with two completely different training backgrounds. I hope this makes sense to you guys and beg the indulgences of Mr Anderson, Sneffrin, Stockton and all the other “gods” of IR. Does this mean I will offer aerial IR scans from my friends airplane, or offer a IR analysis of a nuclear plant…Absolutely not! Will I offer an exceptional HI with IR and charge more for it, yes, a commercial IR scan of a warehouse with my electrician, yes. I will offer to my customers any service that I am capable of and confident in providing. Have I taken level 1, no. Have i taken Johns’ course, yes as well as studying every white paper from Sneffrin, Stockton and others including ASTM standards.
This debate is excellent and I hope it continues and I also hope that this anology will put a little bit of a different light on it. The IR “gods” are correct in saying you need all the training you can get for what you are doing. John and Nick are correct in saying you need training to do what you want to do. Just buying an IR camera and going out there is a fools errand.