Notching Floor Joists

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#1

Originally Posted By: kbrooks
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I am hoping that someone can comment about these two photos of notched and ‘drilled’ floor joists.


I do not have access to this house in the US anymore and I am positive that at least 3 if not all 6 of these joists are not to code even though the homeowner supposedly had a third party contractor/engineer evaluate them.

I believe the code that this falls under is 502.6 and 502.7, right?

Also, can someone estimate the size of the joists? Do they look like 8" or 10"?

Regards





Nice job by the homeowner, eh?

#2

Originally Posted By: dbowers
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Look in your Code Check. There’s too much meat gone. Recommend additional support / bracing then move on.

#3

Originally Posted By: kmcmahon
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Wayyyy to much cut out! Look like they were 2x10 or possibly 2x12.


right now they are only 2x6! ![icon_wink.gif](upload://ssT9V5t45yjlgXqiFRXL04eXtqw.gif)

--
Wisconsin Home Inspection, ABC Home Inspection LLC

Search the directory for a Wisconsin Home Inspector

#4

Originally Posted By: James D Mosier
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What’s the maximum span for a 2X6"?

–
Jim Mosier

#5

Originally Posted By: rcloyd
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At 12in O.C. Southern Pine SS joists will span 11’-2".


Regards,

--
Russell G. Cloyd
Intra-Spec Home Inspections
& Code Consulting, LLC
859-586-4591
www.intra-spechomeinspections.com

#6

Originally Posted By: kbrooks
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This brings up another question.


Say the span for these 2x12 (or 10) is only 9.5 feet (hypothetical) which is under the maximum span for a 2x6.

If there is still 6" of good meat left on these joists after notching, will these beams still be considered code?

They might still have the required strength for the size of the span, but I don't think that they would pass code as per 502.6?

Is this a proper assumption?

#7

Originally Posted By: jpeck
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kbrooks wrote:
This brings up another question.

Say the span for these 2x12 (or 10) is only 9.5 feet (hypothetical) which is under the maximum span for a 2x6.

If there is still 6" of good meat left on these joists after notching, will these beams still be considered code?

They might still have the required strength for the size of the span, but I don't think that they would pass code as per 502.6?

Is this a proper assumption?


Not a good assumption.

The notches at the hatchet job will split up all kinds of unknown directions. A 2x6 has two finished edges which are saw cut. Each cut out 'notch' has two ends from which the splitting may start, and go any direction the grain goes. Not equivalent to a 2x6 just because there may be 5 1/2" of wood left.

--
Jerry Peck
South Florida
#8

Originally Posted By: rcloyd
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Jerry is right. They would not be the equivalent of the larger member. Repairs are necessary.

–
Russell G. Cloyd


Intra-Spec Home Inspections


& Code Consulting, LLC


859-586-4591


www.intra-spechomeinspections.com

#9

Originally Posted By: kbrooks
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While reading though some study material now that I am stuck on structure, I have noticed that the defintion of a floor joist is ambiguous.


Can someone please clarify something for me?

Is a floor joist considered "load bearing"?

The second question is:

Is a floor joist considered "structual"?

Both questions asked in relation to the integrity of the structure.

I realize that they are structual or load bearing in relation to vertical gravity loads.

Is the answer no?

#10

Originally Posted By: jpeck
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kbrooks wrote:
While reading though some study material now that I am stuck on structure, I have noticed that the defintion of a floor joist is ambiguous.

Can someone please clarify something for me?

Is a floor joist considered "load bearing"?


Yes and no. The floor does carry live and dead loads, so 'technically' it is load bearing, however, the meaning of "loading bearing" usually is that it carries load from above, such as roof loads, wall and floor loads from another floor, etc.

Quote:
The second question is:

Is a floor joist considered "structual"?


Yes, it is a structural component of the house as it also helps hold things together.

Quote:
Both questions asked in relation to the integrity of the structure.

I realize that they are structual or load bearing in relation to vertical gravity loads.

Is the answer no?


Yes and no.

Some floor joists may strictly be carrying live and dead loads for the floor, others may also be carrying loads from the structure.

The best way to answer this would be with a specific case in mind. Then follow the roof load down to the foundation. The roof load is carried on the exterior walls, and (many times) on interior walls and columns. These walls and columns must be supported down to the foundation as they are now "load bearing".

If the floor joists in question are not part of the load path, then they are not "load bearing" in that sense, but they still must carry their own load and that load placed on them.

If you had a simple structure, where the roof was supported by the walls, and the walls were supported by the foundation, with the floor joists 'hung' from the foundation or walls, then those joists would not be "load bearing", i.e., the floor joists could be removed with no harm to the structure (other than, of course, losing the floor).

Now, take one side of that structure and remove the wall above the floor joist, and extend the floor joists out beyond the wall, and put the wall out there. Those floor joists are cantilevered and are "load bearing", they carry the wall and roof load above, or maybe a cantilevered deck. They cannot be removed with causing damage to the structure.

--
Jerry Peck
South Florida
#11

Originally Posted By: roconnor
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In addition to supporting floor loads, the ends of floor joists will provide vertical support for exterior walls in platform type framing. Floor joists also brace exterior walls, and support lateral load from wind and support lateral load at the top of basement walls which retain soil.

–
Robert O’Connor, PE


Eagle Engineering ?


Eagle Eye Inspections ?


NACHI Education Committee


I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong
#12

Originally Posted By: lgerving
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Just another comment. The floor joists are not the only problem. The pipe insulation appears it might contain Asbestos.


LWG ![icon_smile.gif](upload://b6iczyK1ETUUqRUc4PAkX83GF2O.gif)