Ontario Ministry of Consumer Services

(Michel R. Thellend, 12042317) #1

Announced that they would be pursuing consultations towards setting minimum qualifications in Ontario for home inspectors. Stay informed by visiting the Ontario Association of Home Inspectors (OAHI) website www.oahi.com](http://www.oahi.com/).
Oct 1, 2012 Press Release](http://www.cahpi.ca/en/about-cahpi-mainmenu-31/news-articles-mainmenu-58.html)Sounds like old news but I just received it in my email today.

(KEVIN WOOD, CMI) #2

Old old news!

(Michel R. Thellend, 12042317) #3

Here we go again though,

Setting the bar higher and higher making it more difficult for college/certified home inspectors to become RHI’s in Ontario.

Just when you think you’re getting somewhere in the ranks, you get pulled down by on the fly descision makers and organizations.

I am really so sick of the BUll++++, a real money game. Full membership fees and upgrade fees for Like how many levels in the OAHI? Student, applicant, this, that, and the other, 10? Oh yes, and are they up to 1000 home inspections in one year yet?

(Roy D. Cooke, Sr) #4

RHI is just some thing OAHI has ,Having been an RHI and served on the OAHI DPPC .
A RHI is no better then any other Home Inspector .
They have some serious dificulties in their association ,
I like many others saw what sort of a closed door association they are.

(KEVIN WOOD, CMI) #5

Micheal listen to Roy as the Ministry of Consumer Services is looking for transparency and consistency and it is one of the many questions asked of OntarioAchi.

(Michel R. Thellend, 12042317) #6

What really gets my goat are the RHI’s that put down accredited CHI’s. Here’s an example;

http://home-inspectors.com/paul.htm

DID YOU KNOW???
HOME INSPECTION REMAINS TOTALLY UNREGULATED IN ONTARIO
**That’s right - ANYONE can call themselves a home inspector **
so it’s important to do your research.

CMHC recommends hiring a professional who has proven their knowledge by gaining a designation from a reputable association or certification authority such as;

  • The National Home Inspection Certification Council (NHI designation)
  • **The Professional Home and Property Inspectors of Canada **
    (PHPI designation)
  • CAHPI - Ontario - (RHI designation)
  • The American Society of Certifed Home Inspectors (CHI designation)

Remember that many community colleges as well as other businesses often offer training in Home Inspection. However these courses on their own, mean VERY LITTLE , and are often not recognised at all or only accepted as partial training towards obtaining a professional designation from one of the trusted Associations/Certification Authorities mentioned above. Community colleges are NOT endorsed to offer Home Inspection designations for any of the above recommended groups, so you may want to excercise caution if your intended HI only has a College Certificate or membership from an Association NOT mentioned above.

There are numerous HI Associations and groups in Canada that CMHC DOES NOT recognise or recommend. (Bull)

If he’s an RHI then how come he doesn’t show he’s OAHI?

My community college is endorsed by OAHI and Carson Dunlop.

He started somewhere too! Why take CHI food off my table?

Why is he even putting this **** on his website???

This is an RHI putting down certified home inspectors on the news! Nnooooooooooo! He couldn’t say there are certified inspectors that meet qualifications! He just downright puts us all down!

The only thing they have up on me is more home’s inspected, they’re no better than me and yet they put us down at every turn.

Hire and RHI! There’s no substitute! If your not an RHI in our organization, you’re not an inspector basically. Et Cetera. Then you have the organizations themselves pushing RHI over CHI. Makes me sick man. How in the hell do they expect a college accredited CHI to move up the ranks when they keep bosting themselves? More government regulation and levels comming into affect will piss a lot of CHI’s off, I’m one of them.

(Roy D. Cooke, Sr) #7

** I have known Paul and many others who all are trying to sell to the public** that how great a living they can make doing home Inspections.
They all exaggerate a lot and do not post the facts about how much time and money is invested to find out many 90% ~ do not last past three years.
They all leave a very bad taste in my mouth and this does not help our industry when not fully trained people use the public to complete their training.

Remember Whistler
http://www.nachi.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4935
Bill has a big anouncement comming soon
http://www.nachi.org/forum/showpost.php?p=166560&postcount=103

(KEVIN WOOD, CMI) #8

OK there has been some major discussions on the MB centered on Ontario Licensing. After looking at the the Alberta Licensing requirements I would like to know if you feel we should follow with the same amount but add 225 hrs and 250 hrs minimum after the first year.
25 Inspections and a Proctored Exam set up by a Third Party.
We also will follow the same path to allow CMI’s and RHI’s as long as they can prove the education they have taken is enough to qualify them to be Grandfathered in.
Ontario Inspectors we need your input on this so post here please!
Here is what was required in Alberta.
Notice it has been dated as of Nov 2012.
http://ab.nachi.org/albertanachi/albertanachi1105.html

(William R. DeVries, CMHI) #9

One thing for sure is the government will make decisions for all associations in Ontario if the leaders do not start to work together on this.
There will be no One group in control" except the Government and if this happens the its all down hill.

When was the last time that any leader of an association called the other leaders and said we need to have a face to face and discuss this.

Still waiting for the answer…

So having persoal experience in this department with the leaders of the BC home inspectors and with BC Consumers, we did just this and made incredable headway.
It was simple we all wanted to make it work. (Period)
Untill the leaders of Ontario can put aside their petty differences NOTHING good will every be done.
School yard scraps were just that, time to grow up and act adult and work a solution.
I know it can be done, I already did it in BC.

(KEVIN WOOD, CMI) #10

Yes William and thanks! I get a little agitated too when it comes to all out control of the Ontario Home Inspectors. Must be my dedication to do what is right for both Newbies and Veterans.

(Roy D. Cooke, Sr) #11

Thanks for your ideas but I do feel if and when Licensing comes along we need a set of made in Ontario Rules .
We are the biggest and have had a lot of past experience .
A good idea might be to hire someone not even connected with home Inspection to do this for us .
I do not feel the government has the ability to do it .
As William R. DeVries, Says we need to get together and talk.
We are like 8 dogs on chains all going in different directions

(William R. DeVries, CMHI) #12

They will be made in Ontario, As only Ontario leaders will be making the decisions for their associations, and together either the SOP will be modified or as in the BC case all were accepted as close enough to each other.
The main thing is to agree that betterment for the industry as a whole is the goal.
Then work down the list of differences and work a solution all are happy with.
Make sure the people meeting can and do have the ability to agree so things are put into place right away.
having a mediator run the meeting will make things smoother.
and at the end of the day, that list will be finished and a true collaboration can succeed.

I know it sounds simple, but it really is just that simple.

(KEVIN WOOD, CMI) #13

No offense Roy but what has been put in place in Alberta has been sent to MCS.
Ontario Home Inspectors are not giving very much fight on the info I have just put on.
I think this is achievable for both Newbies and Veterans.
So far 225 hrs sounds about right do you agree?

(Roy D. Cooke, Sr) #14

[FONT=Calibri]
Goal…betterment of the industry as a whole! Don’t get me wrong, I agree…trouble is, this is exactly what OAHI & PACHI tired to do, and that was all for not, given 8 associations or so now.
What makes everyone one think that all the associations along with the government can get it right?
Everyone should give their heads a shake…when was the last time you used “your government” or “your association” as a MODEL for doing something right!!!
The list is endless of their screw ups!!!
I was a PACHI member and was on the Amalgamation committee .
I saw how OAHI worked once they got PACHI’s money .
They are still the selfish closed door group who have not grown much in 10 years .
We now have very few home inspectors who seemed concerned in bettering and amalgamating our industry.
Has anyone ever received a letter from OAHI?CAHPI?PHPIC? re cooperation .
I still say we Ontario Inspectors can settle this if we can communicate .
I also do not feel we will have action by our Government this year re Licensing .
Ontario just passed a law Jan 1 ,2013 that all groups must pay enough to run the system ** no more government funds**.
[/FONT]

(Michel R. Thellend, 12042317) #15

Hi Kevin,

Hope you have a good New Year.

Well, as you know I’ve shed some feelings in this post regarding how I feel about the current situation in the home inspection industry in general. Not a happy one.

I would like to elaborate on your current propositions regarding Ontario Licensing.

The way I see it is that there are two classifications of CHI’s, both of which are not mentioned anywhere in your posts;
1-CHI’s that have simply passed an online exam to acquire certification such as with InterNACHI (reverse order, pass exam, and then mandatory education)
2-CHI’s that have undergone a college accredited program for certification (mandatory education, then pass exam). Just for the record I did both.

Then there are a pile of other home inspector designations;
1-CMI, CCHI, RHI, NHI, and the list goes’ on.

OAHI has royal ascent in the home inspection industry in Ontario. They will play a major role when talks take place with the government to establish a final standard in the industry.

So far I’ve put in well over 1000 hours between the two CHI classifications mentioned above, and this is not including the 9000 hours minimum requirement to become a licensed electrician in construction/maintenance and electronic controls, the 30 years I spent in the trade, or any other trades I worked in my lifetime. Having a trade with a minimum of 5 years was a requirement when I first joined OAHI.

Going through the process of becoming a home inspector to learn the home inspection industry is and should be a requirement that I fulfilled. There is no two ways about it; going through a home inspection program is a must for anyone wanting to be a home inspector. I learned a great deal from it, and it filled the gaps of what I already knew. From my communication and professionalism and defect recognition courses, performing home inspections, basically, everything in the 10 plus courses I took at Algonquin College thus far, and the multitude of courses through InterNACHI were essential to truly becoming a qualified home inspector.

When I first decided to become a home inspector I already had a substantial amount of construction background in the electrical industry. Becoming an electrician involves a lot when it comes to construction such as blueprint reading, working from the foundation up regarding materials and construction methods, et cetera, and far outweighs any person entering the home inspection industry without any kind of trade or construction engineering degree.

There is no system in place to acknowledge or credit new home inspectors with qualifications in existing construction trades. I truly brought more to the home inspection industry regarding knowledge and quality of standards that are equal too, or above the SOP of any organization. You spoke of qualifications and grandfathering in; no one person should be grandfathered in. All CMI’s, RHI’s and CHI’s are equals. Personally, I would strip all current designations in the home inspection industry as they were created by individuals and organizations for various and obvious reasons. Acquiring CHI designation, “the very first one really ever created I do believe”, and then licensing, should be implemented and should be enough.

CHI’s assume the same responsibilities as any other designation in the industry and are not equally recognized even with qualifications that are equal too, or exceed that of any designation. Being a CHI is no different than being an RHI, CMI, CCHI, et cetera. CHI’s make up a major portion of the home inspection industry and we have a voice too. Just because home inspection organizations where founded and rules were dictated from people (grandfathers) within these organizations doesn’t give them the right to impose a multitude of ever changing requirements for CHI’s. Most grandfathers didn’t even pass a CHI course like most of us did to begin with.

I’m a firm believer that time served in any industry is a must. With what I underwent in my lifetime in the construction and home inspection industries, I truly feel my time has been served in this industry and that my CHI designation is just as pertinent as any other.

Ontario Licensing;

1-Must have undergone and passed an accredited home inspection program from an approved list of colleges or InterNACHI and the federal government.
2-25 fee based inspections in any time frame.
3-1 mentored home inspection from a list of available home inspectors with over 10 years served in their organization, and 2 reviews of home inspection reports from the same organizations.
4-No pre-defined designations are required to apply for a license and the exam must be proctored by a college, or where accreditation was administered, and is approved by the federal government.
5-No one person can be grandfathered in regarding licensing. Everyone must pass an approved examination set forth by all empowered home inspection organizations and the federal government with an 80% average.

Sincerely,

PS: This includes you too Mike Holmes.

(KEVIN WOOD, CMI) #16

There is only one problem with this Michel, it will hurt the Industry dearly. Even if there was a way to convince the CMI’s and RHI’s to take another exam this will get the Newbies hurt. You can’t have it both ways and make it impossible for them to get into Home Inspection. A reasonable achievable level must be set forth for them. Having gone through Teaching the Carson Dunlop and taken way more than what is required to be a Home Inspector I can say the path of 225 hrs as a minimum is not that hard to achieve yet hard enough to prevent the walk ins off the street.
Remember not all are going to want to go this far to attain a license and that is what we want for our Industry.

(Michel R. Thellend, 12042317) #17

Being a “CHI Newbie”, I’m the one feeling it the most in this industry already!

All organizations including the OAHI should remove their insane multitude of membership levels and give way for qualified CHI’s like me and thousands of others.

One standard, CHI then licensing.
Would make the reasonable and achievable goals you’re thinking about.

(KEVIN WOOD, CMI) #18

That is what we are trying to get in place Michel. CCHI will be granted to you after the TIPR from whatever the Ministry of Government Services puts in place.
You already are way passed the requirements so you should not be worried.
As for anyone not wanting to work to get the License these are the ones that will be left in the dust.

(Vern Mitchinson, CCHI CMI) #19

Michel You refer to CHI a number of times. Can you please tell us who granted you the right to use CHI?

(KEVIN WOOD, CMI) #20

I want to make a correction that the the TIPR we are familiar with in Ontario is not the same as the Peer review done for CCHI in Alberta. The reason I am using this is just to substantiate that some kind of Peer review will be needed to align what is expected from the Home Inspectors in Ontario.
I have no clue what that will be until further advancement and discussions come from Ministry of Consumer Services.