Disregarding it’s ability to function, do you think that you can find some appliances or equipment that have, as part of it’s listing instructions, a requirement that it must be connected to a grounded receptacle?
Then please go to www.ncbeec.org and search this number 09873-U as this electrician is asking you to please explain
No .
W.A.F.I. :roll:
Ok Kevin, when you say you “flag” it for this condition, please tell me what it says in your report.
No need to go off on a tangent, just post your standard narrative for this “condition.”
I’ll answer for him. Yes, they all do. Do a google search for “refrigerator installation manual” and every one you read “requires” a grounded receptacle.
Whitt has a tendency for tunnel vision and will continue to argue about appliances not needing an EGC to function even though no one has said that in this forum or in the link he quoted.
In fact, the last quote he posted made it clear. If it has a three prong plug then the manufacturer put it there and they (the manufacturer) require it be plugged into a grounded receptacle.
Wrong. They all do.
Random frig, pg. 4, top right.
Random microwave, pg. 2&4
Random freezer, pg. 3
Not going to open that can of warms again Jeffrey!
Like I said to Kenton
Do what you want say what you may!
As far as talking to Electricians. I have done Home Inspections with Electricians with me on many occasions and I have explained this to them.
Just because it is “flagged” does not necessarily mean it is not installed to CODE.
Stephen I guess you just labeled yourself as not very PROFESSIONAL.
I guess you forgot that all can read this as usual.
No. Someone flagging a properly functioning GFCI is not professional.
Kevin, I don’t understand why you say you are calling out an outlet in this scenario. What defect/comment would you put in your report?
For your safety, this product should be properly grounded. Have a qualified professional check the electrical circuit and outlet to ensure a proper ground connection.
I don’t see the word “required”
(http://www.smarthome.com/manuals/13041.pdf[/quote)]
Grounding Instructions
This appliance must be grounded. In the event of an electrical short circuit, grounding reduces the risk of electric shock by providing an escape wire for the electric current. This appliance is equipped with a cord having a grounding wire with a grounding plug. The plug must be plugged into an outlet that is properly installed and grounded.
Still don’t see a requirement for an EGC or the word “Required”
Refer to the serial plate for correct electrical rating. The power cord of the freezer is equipped with a three-prong grounding plug for protection against shock hazards. It must be plugged directly into its own properly grounded three-prong receptacle, protected with a 15 amp time delay fuse or circuit breaker. The receptacle must be installed in accordance with the local codes and ordinances. Consult a qualified electrician. Receptacles with Ground Fault Circuit Interrupters (GFCI) are NOT RECOMMENDED. DO NOT USE AN EXTENSION CORD OR AN ADAPTER PLUG.
Just where all of these requirements that I am so closed are minded to not look at?
Wait a minute, I think we are looking at the wrong material. We need to be looking at the rules that mandate how receptacles are to be installed to find a “requirement” about any equipment grounding conductor and that book would be the NEC or the adopted code in that area.
How would someone who owns a home built before the requirements of EGC ever use one of these items? That’s right the NEC give us an alternative method for installing a GFCI device instead of rewiring our entire home just to have an equipment grounding conductor.
I suppose some does not understand the difference between recommended and required.
Kevin has already told everyone to stay on the bridge or was it on one side of the bridge?
He said something about a bridge I do remember. I think it had to do with not falling off or something.
Yes Joseph that is why I say common practice here!
Since many times our paths collide in what is acceptable down there is not the same as here.
Since I deal with Electricians not caring for how they install and see things wrong I wonder who is doing the work.
That is what is so wonderful about my state of North Carolina. A licensed electrical contractor is required by law to make all installations in a code compliant manner weather it is to be inspected or not.
What we run into here a lot is the Do-It-Yourselfer that comes in after the electrical contractor and does work without inspections.
There have been many hours of work in getting the Canadian electrical code to walk hand in hand with the National Electrical Code for many years now. Maybe sometime in the near future the Canadian Electrical Code will be the NEC with amendments.
The one thing that can’t be changed no matter which code is being used is the way electricity will react in certain situations. Electrical current flow does not know where a border starts and stops. This is also true with comments concerning current flow. A misrepresented comment is wrong no matter which side of a border someone is standing.
Yes you are correct and as far as current flow it still is confusing to many when you read many different opinions from everyone all in the same field.
Here is one that confuses me
A grounding wire is a safety feature. It is designed to conduct electricity if current seeks to return to the service panel along a path other than the neutral wire. This is known as a short curcuit a short circuit is a potentially dangerous situation. If an electrical box,tool,or appliance becomes short circuited and is touched by a person, the electrical current may attempt to return to its source through that persons body. However electrical always seeks to move along the easiest path. A ground wire in any unit is the safe path back to its source unless you are in the way of that source.
Since the earth has a unique ability to absorb the electrons of electrical current any excess electricity will find its way along the grounding wire to the earth where it becomes harmless.
This is correct. The Equipment Grounding Conductor (EGC) is a fault current path back to the source.
This is almost true. Current is not seeking a path but travels the path back to its source in any manner available to it. A short circuit and a ground fault are almost the same thing and are referred to as the same in the field. The correct verbiage to use should the EGC be carrying current is a ground fault.
This if very untrue. Current will follow any and all paths availability to it. Should there be a fault to ground and the EGC is carrying current and a person come in contact with exposed metal they too will carry part of the faulted current.
Again this is incorrect. The EGC is a low impedance path for fault current to travel in order to open the overcurrent device. It in no way protects someone who is in parallel with the current from being harmed.
It is not a safety net.
Again another misconception that is so far untrue that it has no place in any statement about the EGC.
The earth does not absorb any electrons. If the earth absorbed electrons then we could hook one side of a battery to earth and the battery would go dead. Try it and see for yourself that this does not happen.
Earth will conduct electricity if the voltage is high enough to push it through earth back to the utility pole which is also connected to earth.
The laws of physics state that in order for current to flow there must be a complete path from the source back to the source. In our homes systems there is a parallel path for current to flow. One is the grounded neutral conductor and the other is earth. The resistance of earth is so high that very little current flows from our grounding electrodes through earth back to the grounding electrode at the transformer that is supplying our homes but there is always some that does.
In a fault situation the current is flowing on the EGC from the point of the fault back to the service equipment where the main bonding jumper connects the EGC to the service neutral conductor then back to its source. This fault current path which only has the resistance of the conductors which allows a high amount of current to flow which opens the overcurrent device be it a fuse or breaker. The connection to earth plays no role in this what so ever.
In the event of a ground fault and someone is in contact with any metal surface that is carrying this faulted current that person is in dire danger of death. The current will not only be traveling on the EGC but also it will travel on the parallel path of that person and earth back to its source.
The bottom line is the EGC in no way protects a person from electrical shock. It is simply a low impedance path that allows the operation of the overcurrent device. All overcurrent devices have a trip curve that takes some amount of time to open.
The earth is not to be used for the opening of an overcurrent device and in most cases will not open one. A simple experiment that you can do at home is to drive an 8 foot rod into earth some distance from your homes driven rod and connect a wire to it and a breaker. Then turn on the breaker and see if it trips. If it doesn’t then the case is closed as to earth absorbing electrons.
I think you’re misinterpreting the electricians you “deal with.” You believe they don’t care, when the fact is more likely that they’re laughing at your ridiculous “flagging” of a condition that is perfectly acceptable.
Since they don’t agree with your call, you misinterpret that as “not caring.”
Help me understand your position - please post your narrative for an ungrounded GFCI device that trips with its internal test button, but not with your three-light tester.
Consider this - your three-light tester is not designed to trip an ungrounded GFCI device. You may as well wiggle your fingers and say “abracadabra.” The result will always be the same.
This Mr. Witt is not what I say but is from another source!
You are confusing the issue that I believe this to be true.
I still don’t understand why one can say this and another says this.
Too much misconception in Electrical Authorities drives me crazy.
Again these are not my words at all!
You say it is wrong and yet I will turn around and talk to another AHJ and they say you are wrong.