Paul was here!!

This would rate as one of the cleanest/neatest panels I have seen to date.

Looks like the work of Paul A.

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That is too excellent! I’ll bet all the wall plate screw slots are all perfectly horizontal, too. What’s the 4 pole main breaker all about? I haven’t seen that before.

Jim King

Grounding issue with wires leaving the enclosure at the top and the bottom


Don’t think Paul would use a nail hole(zero connector too) for a ground wire.


James, that is a common breaker setup on Siemens/ITE type panels. Each 2 pole breaker feeds one bus at two contact points.

Richard, what grounding issues do you mean?

Tom, I don’t see the GEC going thru a nail hole. Panels today come with 1 or 2 small knockouts just for the GEC. Maybe that is what you are referring to? Can’t really see how the top one exits, but I can’t see any violations.

I’m sure Paul will chime in soon.

Great panel, I guess the newbs always have a issue no matter what it is. Try bringing up the previous issues with anyone…you’ll be laughed out of the home…Your not god, just an inspector…get over it. Nice call Mr. Macy.

Better yet keep it up, my business continues to get better. Thx

AHHH…you guys TALKIN about me again…:0

Actually it is a rather neat panel…I would only have a FEW complaints if my guys did it.,…

1 - I don’t like the conductors bending down and straight back up at the top of this panel…I like them routed to the back corners and neatly ran as tight to the back sides as possible…but thats just me.

2 - No problem with those GEC’s going through the approved openings next to the Concent. KO’s…not a problem at all…I would have done the same thing.

3- Now…I have a habit on my “Grounded” conductor of using (3) wraps of WHITE tape on it…just my thing…you know…my signature…:)…ok…I know…I Know…

4 - I don’t nearly leave as much conductor on the wires that terminate in the buss bar…but again thats just me.

5 - WOW…they must have had a FIGHT getting the conductors into the box as the jackets on the SE conductors are beat to death…

Overall…I would say it is neat compared to some I see…BUT it ain’t as neat as one of mine…yep…thats my EGO coming into play…:slight_smile:

Awful NICE thing to say Dave…Thinking of ME and Neatness all in the same sentence…I thank you for that…as if my head is not large enough.:mrgreen:

I love it

Even at my age I learned something today

So those little holes can be used for GEC

Thanks all


Yeppers…the ones located next to the SEC openings…:slight_smile: …not the mounting holes or weep holes in the corners…:slight_smile:

Can you give me a reference to what manufacturer directs you to use 1/4" holes for such use? I was taught those are nail/screw holes, since using them for anything else without a connector is a violation. References: 2005NEC 314.17, if not directed by manufacture for GEC then 2005NEC 110.3B, and then of course the infamous: 110.12

I could use the assist. Inspectors want to see anchors/connectors (I like black buttons myself.) Thx.



It has been posted on here MANY times that the smaller 1/4" holes located next to the KO's for the se conductors are perfectly allowed for the GEC via the Manufacturer.....they are not mounting holes, weep holes......they are designed with a KO that must be removed and nearly every EC I know uses them for the GEC.

I will find this topic from before and post it for you…

I’d appreciate that. Remember unless I have manufacturer’s instructions (I hope pdf) I have to follow the NEC and inspectors expectations.


lol…ok…well…I can’t seem to find the image from the manufacturer but I will look…FYI…I don’t see it as a violation at all…and it is placed their by the manufacturer for that intent…are you saying a WEEP hole is CLOSED until it is opened?

These little holes beside the SE KO’s is designed for the GEC…we are talking about two different things here…call it dejavue…

FYI…do you think the little BLACK button connectors are approved for this application as well?

No never called it a ‘weep hole’ besides, I don’t know of any manufacture that calls them such, since they say for wet conditions use a rain tight box. :wink:

I called them nail holes, since I use a small nail, or awl to knock them out. Many times they are ‘plugged’ and need the filler material(uncut part of the box) knocked out.


lol…so you are calling that little hole next to the enterance area of the SE conductors mounting holes…:wink:

Hey BUD…its your inspection…:slight_smile: but if I get called out by a HI ( wearing my electrician ) hat because the GEC is running through one of these openings that I have defined above…lol…hate to be the HI when I explain to the client they are incorrect and that the GEC running through that openings is perfectly fine…:slight_smile:

To each his own…:slight_smile:

Ha ha ha, well when I tell our electrican inspector, “I did it cause Paul said so” I’m guessing after he stops laughing I’ll get either a lecture, or a red sticker. Till I have proof, I’l use my black buttons. However, I would love to see the documentation.



lol…Tom you seem to think I care what the local AHJ says to you…I would simply tell them to explain what HIS terminology for that hole is…the AHJ’s are not always correct…neither am i ( well I am on this one…:wink: )

But you are always entitled to believe anything you wish…go ahead fella use them buttons if they pass…would not pass up here…but the opening designed for the GEC would…so guess everywhere is different…:slight_smile:

Guess what…I used the little KO for my GEC on a 400A service just the other day…guess what…PASSED with no problems…:slight_smile:

Ha ha ha, well I do. That’s why having paperwork works for me. I have cool AHJ around here, when they quote something, sometimes sounding like out of the air, I ask where is that written, and I get paperwork. So when they ask me why I did something a certain way, I have manufacturer’s documentation and my “old” dog-eared NEC book. This is why I’d love to see it, so I can print it up, and cram it into my overflowing Red Book.


tom <== Always trying to aquire knowledge.

Actually…I would LOVE for you to have your local AHJ call me…you have to understand even THEY are not clear on many things…in fact I get ALOT of AHJ’s call me…for clarrification…seems like he needs clarrification and I am MORE than happy to do that.

However…in our area many of my clarrifications have caused headaches for the local EC’s…:slight_smile: so if he asks…he needs to be ready to put it into effect…:slight_smile: