Problem from past inspection...

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#1

Originally Posted By: reborn
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I got a call today from a realtor advising that a client I did an inspection for about a month and a half ago is hopping mad over something I “missed.” The client stated that the 4" flue pipe from the furnace was disconnected and direct venting exhaust into the basement from the mid-efficiency Ducane furnace (75,000 BTUHR) The client states that the way the flues were, he doesn’t think it was ever hooked up. Initially I was scared to death that I’d missed something this obvious…Then I started to think…


1. If it was exhausting directly into the basement, shouldn't my CO2 meter have picked something up during inspection? I usually let the furnace run for about 15 minutes then take readings all around the furnace and from the registers.

2. The furnace is 3 years old, and was installed when the home was remodeled 3 years ago...The home has been occupied by the owners since then. If it was never hooked up, wouldn't it have created a problem before now?

3. They've just replaced the hot water heater, which sat next to the furnace, and shared the exhaust pipe. Could the plumber have been careless enough to disconnect it and not reconnect?

They're asking for a full refund of the fee. I'm going to do a reinspect and talk to them tomorrow. Any advice? This is my first "problem" after a year of inspecting and I could use any help I could get!

Thanks
Ryan

#2

Originally Posted By: ekartal
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Ryan,


The problem with this scenario is that if you give back just half your fee, it’s like admitting guilt. Tough call.


Erol

#3

Originally Posted By: rsummers
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Quote:
3. They've just replaced the hot water heater, which sat next to the furnace, and shared the exhaust pipe. Could the plumber have been careless enough to disconnect it and not reconnect?


#4

Originally Posted By: dbowers
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Ryan -


Was the buyer with you at the inspection??? If so how come he didn't see this?? If they have a new water heater put in since you were there - why didn't the plumber see it?? If the house was being lived in its highly unlikely the seller didn't notice the carbon monoxide that was killing him??

Unless you were blind - you couldn't possibly miss something like that - Are You??

Sounds like somebody made a boo-boo and wants you to pay.

Treat it accordingly ...................

If you're right tell them to get lost - politely.

If you screwed up hook up the flue - $50-$95 ........

Hardly a REFUND of anything .................

#5

Originally Posted By: psmothers
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You can also type something up for them to sign if you refund any money. Put a phrase in it along the lines of “The monies refunded is only a jester of good will and not a admission of an oversight on the inspectors part.”

–
Foxe Smothers


"Its not a matter of will we rebuilt it is matter of how soon..."

"A hero is no braver than an ordinary man, but he is brave five minutes longer."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
#6

Originally Posted By: kmcmahon
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I take tons pictures at an inspection. Do you? did you try and see if one of them shows the pipes correctly installed?


Also, when you get there, show them your routine with the CO meter and tell them it’s almost an impossibility that you missed that.


Good luck and let us know how it comes out.

--
Wisconsin Home Inspection, ABC Home Inspection LLC

Search the directory for a Wisconsin Home Inspector

#7

Originally Posted By: aslimack
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When you go back, take pictures and share them with us here. It might lend insight on the likelihood the plumbers installation of the waterheater had anything to do with it. It also might lend clues as to whether it actually was a “plumber” that installed the heater. Look for proper relief valve extension, water hook-ups, etc. The problem may lie with the friend, relative, etc. who may have been the installer. Not saying a professional couldn’t have overlooked it, but its alot less likely.


Adam

#8

Originally Posted By: jpeck
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I’d go out there and take a look. You may well see where the vent COULD HAVE BEEN connected when you were there. Remember, you said the client stated “The client states that the way the flues were, he doesn’t think it was ever hooked up.”


That means no scratch marks on the metal where the sections meet, no soot or anything inside the vent, no anything which would indicate it was connected.

There, like the others have said, 'who touched it last?' - 'the plumber' who replaced the water heater.

I also take lots and lots of photos, including a full view of the water heater, a/c air handler, condenser unit, electrical panels, etc. I might not be able to see it all, but I suspect I'd be able to see if that was connected. A side benefit of taking those photos is that, when you are 'framing' the item in the photo, you may see something you might not have seen otherwise.

--
Jerry Peck
South Florida

#9

Originally Posted By: Guest
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I’m not quite understanding how there could be ANY question in your mind as to whether or not the vent was hooked up.

#10

Originally Posted By: dbowers
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- that sort of thing was typical for the rest of YOUR INSPECTION.

#11

Originally Posted By: jpeck
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Chad, Dan,


You guys MUST be perfect.

I can imagine that doubt.

Did I turn the oven off or leave it on?

Did I set the a/c thermostat back where it was?

Damn, I think I forgot to lock that bedroom window after I opened it.

and on and on ...

MAYBE, just MAYBE ... did you guys notice that there was no protection in front of the water heater in the garage ... or was there?

Guess you guys HAVE NEVER BEEN DISTRACTED by clients or anything else during your inspection, huh? I know I have, and I miss things, heck, no telling WHAT I miss (if I could tell, then I wouldn't have missed it, would I?).

--
Jerry Peck
South Florida

#12

Originally Posted By: Guest
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Nope, far from perfect.


But there's a short list of absolutely do not miss items. Furnace and water heater venting is on it.

#13

Originally Posted By: rrushing
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While I’ll agree with Jerry that there are those times that I will think… Damn, did I turn that heater off to the pool?


Did I re-set the temperature back to where it was on the (not hot) water heater?

There are some that happen like that. However, one of the items on the must-do list is take pictures of all combustion flue connections.

Just yesterday, I was up on the roof. The next thing I know is the buyer has climbed up on my ladder on to the roof (8/12 pitch). He immediatly started to slide down, grabbed the water heater flue/ chimney while slidding and dislodged it from below. DFMSOB!!! ![icon_redface.gif](upload://f7DX2EWhmUfsDapWaYT3oJHMCj1.gif)

Documentation is paramount. Take too many pictures, then take some more...

Rich

#14

Originally Posted By: prand
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Geez! did you politely rip the client a new one? How do you handle a situation like that where the client causes damage to the property?

#15

Originally Posted By: rrushing
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Since I go over the contract with the buyer prior to the inspection, I cover the fact that any damage caused by the buyer is his responsibility and not covered by me. If he goes into the attic with or without me, his damage is his responsibility. This was one of these guys that has done everything and knows everything about nothing. He’s one of those off-Jack’s of all trades.


My report stated how I found this item when it was inspected--in functioning condition. That the buyer was for-warned of his liability and takes responsibility for his actions by signing the inspection agreement. I then stated that the potential buyer dislodged the flue and should make any and all arrangements for repairs, even if the sale does not go through. The Realtors (both buyers and sellers) were made aware of the situation and didn't have a problem with the situation. The seller agent called and stated that they had worked it out where, if the sale didn't go through, the repairs would be made, as agreed by the buyers agent. Otherwise, this item wouldn't show up on the amendment to the contract for the seller to repair.

RR

#16

Originally Posted By: reborn
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Hey Guys, thanks for all your feedback on this. I do take pics at my inspections and include them with the report, but until know I have only taken photos of the stuff that was bad, never the stuff that was good. Some other things I’ve thought of…I have on my report that the furnace flue was a 4" double wall, and the water heater - a single wall 3". To meet current codes, the plumber would have had to replace the water heater flue with a 4"…So that could be an immediate giveaway.


The realtor representing the client is the broker out of a small firm, and I do easily 8 out of 10 of the inspections from their brokerage...So my top priority is to make things right in his eyes, as not to lose that clientele. I guess I'll just see what I find when I get there - I'll keep you posted AND document this stuff with photos FROM NOW ON. (Thanks for that tip, BTW - it's a good safeguard for situations like this.)

It's nearly 9am here in Utah, guess I'd better have a margarita.

Cheers,
Ryan

#17

Originally Posted By: jpeck
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Chad Fabry wrote:
Nope, far from perfect.

But there's a short list of absolutely do not miss items. Furnace and water heater venting is on it.


That is, and was, understood.

HOWEVER, you are missing the fact that IF YOU MISS something, that means you forgot it, so being on a 'must not miss list' doesn't help if you are distracted and 'miss' it.

Stuff like that JUST happens occasionally. There less it happens, the better. I would not say it NEVER happens, though.

--
Jerry Peck
South Florida
#18

Originally Posted By: dbowers
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there are certain things I BLINDER OUT on AND thats what I teach all my students.


MY NEVER MISS LIST IS:

(1) The Killers (Bad venting of any gas fired device, bad furnaces, bad electrical, bad fireplaces; (2) The Big Ticket items that could break me or the client (roof, foundation, etc).

I might miss a drippy faucet or cracked window pane (could care less), BUT in 26 years I've NEVER had anyone call me and claim I MISSED the hole in the heat exchanger, the cracked fireplace flue or the foundation movement. End of story! Its NOT an OPTION!

#19

Originally Posted By: jpeck
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dbowers wrote:
I might miss a drippy faucet or cracked window pane (could care less), BUT in 26 years I've NEVER had anyone call me and claim I MISSED the hole in the heat exchanger, the cracked fireplace flue or the foundation movement. End of story! Its NOT an OPTION!


Oh ye of little imagination.

What makes you think you haven't MISSED something just BECAUSE no one ever caught it or maybe just did not call you about it, or maybe they thought 'hmmmm ... may not have been cracked when my inspector looked' even though maybe it was?

Any GOOD inspector will acknowledge they miss things, NOT acknowledging it sounds like you are covering it up. Heck, I miss things all the time, well, I assume I do. But, hey, if I missed them, how would I know? Unless my clients called and told me, and none have, so does that mean I DON'T miss things? Not on your life, all it means is that I've been the best I could be all these years, and ... been lucky.

If I thought I didn't miss anything, there would be no reason to keep learning more, would there?

--
Jerry Peck
South Florida
#20

Originally Posted By: reborn
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Well the client had to reschedule for tomorrow so I didn’t get a chance to see this today.


About your 90 day warranty Dan, what are the details of this? How has the service been received by your clients? Does anyone else provide a similar service?