Originally Posted By: syared
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What does the NEC say about a receptacle near a sink. Is there any specs on a minimum distance from a sink?
What does the NEC say about a receptacle near a sink. Is there any specs on a minimum distance from a sink?
Originally Posted By: jpope
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It must be GFCI protected. No distance requirements.
Originally Posted By: away
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Steve,
I didn't see a minimum distance from a sink, only that for bathrooms they must be within 3 feet.
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Andrew Way
Keystone Residential Inspection Services PLLC
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Originally Posted By: syared
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thanks! I think the location is an odd spot, a couple more inches and it would be behind the sink, not to convienient.
Originally Posted By: whandley
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Bathrooms:
Receptacle is required within 3' of basin.
IRC #3801.6
NEC #210-52d
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Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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This really depends on what kind of sink this is and what year NEC you are talking about…
In the kitchen you need GFCI for all countertop receptacles, near the sink or not. The same is true of all receptacles in a bathroom, garage and unfinished basement (no relation to the sink).
There are exceptions for dedicated receptacles behind appliances.
The 2002 just added “within 6’ of a wet bar sink”.
The sink in a laundry room is not addressed until 2005 when we got the same 6’ rule for that sink.
If you had a vanity sink in a dressing room without a toilet, tub or shower, it is not covered at all. That is not all that uncommon in a McMansion guest suite. They call it the Jack and Jill bathroom.
Originally Posted By: whandley
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I thought Steve was asking weather or not an outlet is required to be within a certain distance of a sink. I noted no reference to GFCI protection. If distance is the question. There must be a receptical within 3’ of all bathroom sinks, (NEC and IRC). I could find no such requirement for kitchen, garage and or wet bar sinks.
Isn't a "Jack and Jill" bathroom, simply a regular full or 3/4 bathroom between two adjoining bedrooms? Don't they normally have tub and/or shower, toilet and sink? And depending on their orginal age or remodeling would the sink/counter outlet not be GFCI protected?
Maybe Mr. Abernathy could way in with his four bits!
"I travel the globe to protect my clients!"
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California Home Inspectors
Orange County Home Inspectors
Laguna Niguel Home Inspectors
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(760) 943-7552 San Diego/Riverside Counties
HUD/FHA Inspector ID #I078
Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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Perhaps I have a terminology problem with Jack and Jill.
I am referring to the motel type setup where the toilet and tub are in one room and the vanity sink (or two) in another. That could be shared with 2 bedrooms, adjoining in the “vanity” room.
I have just seen them and heard the name.
There is still no real good NEC rule to require a GFCI on this receptacle.
It isn't a bathroom, kitchen, basement, utility room, wet bar or laundry. I still doubt an inspector would let you get away with it.
Originally Posted By: lwillick
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A good rule of thumb is that any receptacle within ten inches of any water containment area should be GFCI protected. Also with the standard six foot electrical cords coming with applainces these days it would be prudent to have GFCI safety at all receptacles near water containment areas.
Regards,
larry
Originally Posted By: jsieg
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Way back when there was a rule when GFCI’s first came out that said any recepticle within 3’ of water had to be GFCI protected. Then I think it changed to 6". Now it’s any kitchen counter, unfinished basement, garage, outside, bath counter, etc. It’s been said above… blah, blah, blah…
Don't quote me on them, but it was something like that in the '70's & '80's.
Originally Posted By: pabernathy
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| Quote: |
| Maybe Mr. Abernathy could way in with his four bits! |
I am not sure which you would like me to give my " four bits " on. I have kinda backed off the boards a bit because I just did not agree with some of the directions I am seeing...but I will chime in on this one for you.
Short and simple....Greg is right in regards to it depends on the CODE you are in. Basically, the bathroom is 3' from the basin ( Art.210.52(d) for the code junkies) and all recepts in the bathroom sink area are required to be GFCI. AS well as the introduction of the wetbar addition ( Art 210.(A)(7) again for the NEC junkies..
Now it is important to note that in so far as the NEC considers a bathroom it is considered as such as long as it has (1) basin with one or more of the following ( Toilet, a tub, or a shower ) even if a door seperates any one of them..it is still considered the bathroom in the eyes of the NEC. Note it says ALL recepts in bathrooms MUST have GFCI as listed in Art 210.8(A)(1)....why do I give some code...well because I want to...
Also as Greg stated the recepts on a kitchen counter are required to be GFCI regardless and they still have to meet the 24" spacing so that at no point a plug is more than 24" away.....basically a plug every 4' on the counter and any space 12" or more....
Now as Greg has stated...in most cases the local AHJ will deem that the recepts located within the bathroom are still considered part of the bathroom as most would be wired in such a way....WHY...well wiring just works that way and if you are going to wire a recept. in the bathroom and want one in the smaller potty square as we call it....it would generally be off the same 20A circuit.....HOWEVER...I for the life of me do not see why someone would need a recept. in the potty square ( you call small room with a toilet only off the main bathroom. )
Well If I missed something I am sure someone will tell me....I am hoping that was the question answered as I am bidding jobs right now and multitasking.
Oh....BTW...AGAIN here is the link to the place where I posted a history of the GFCI to download http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/viewtopic.php?t=17378
--
Paul W. Abernathy- NACHI Certified
Electrical Service Specialists
Licensed Master Electrician
Electrical Contractor
President of NACHI Central Virginia Chapter
NEC Instructor
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Visit our website- www.electrical-ess.com
Originally Posted By: mcyr
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Paul;
I am glad you brought these accurate issues at hand and would like to add that receptacles in the kitchen also has to be 24" from the sink and not only 24" apart.
I work for a General Contractor and last Winter we got nabed by the code enforcement on a 220 bed facility for the University of New England, in Biddeford, Maine.
This involved about 50 +- kichenettes with no range and the receptacle was 27" away from the kitchen sink and everyone had to be moved in order to get a C. O. .
Some times the codes are to me a little to much beyond commen sense, but that is alright, we have to live with it.
Thanks for the info.
Marcel
Originally Posted By: pabernathy
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mcyr,
Thank you.....just to make it clear the NEC does not state the recept. has to be 24 inches from the sink in those exact words.....using the theory of at no point can a appliance be more than 24" from a recept. hindges on the fact that at the sink you could use an appliance ( lets say a mixer ( handheld ) and the plug being more than 24" from the sink would negate the need to have a recept at no point on the counter more than 24" away.
But I do like the way you stated it......someone should submit it to list it in those words....would make it simple to understand for many people.
The actual way it is worded now is:
NEC ( Art. 210.52 (C)(1)- A receptacle outlet shall be installed at each wall counter space that is (12 in ) or wider. Receptacle outlets SHALL BE installed so that no point along the wall line is amore than (24 in ) mesured horizontally froma receptacle outlet in that space.
So being the SINK breaks up the space their has to be one within 24" of the sink....much like the within 6' of a doorway, fireplace, fixed door etc. in normal circuit layouts......just they choose to explain it in more cryptic terms for those not familiar with the NEC... 
Also....I wont go into Islands, Peninsular and so on spaces......but on the counter top also you know that receptacles SHALL BE located above, but not more than (20in) above, the countertop. Keep in mind I am refering to countertop recepts.....not outlets that are not accessible and those that have to do with the few exceptions listed.
--
Paul W. Abernathy- NACHI Certified
Electrical Service Specialists
Licensed Master Electrician
Electrical Contractor
President of NACHI Central Virginia Chapter
NEC Instructor
Moderator @ Doityourself.com
Visit our website- www.electrical-ess.com
Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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| Quote: |
| HOWEVER...I for the life of me do not see why someone would need a recept. in the potty square ( you call small room with a toilet only off the main bathroom. ) |
Plug in air freshener?
Originally Posted By: pabernathy
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lol…oh come on Greg…do you stink it up THAT bad…thehehe
–
Paul W. Abernathy- NACHI Certified
Electrical Service Specialists
Licensed Master Electrician
Electrical Contractor
President of NACHI Central Virginia Chapter
NEC Instructor
Moderator @ Doityourself.com
Visit our website- www.electrical-ess.com