SEC Okay?

Specific Inspection Topics Electrical Inspections
1

hello,

i’m studying to become a home inspector. anyways i was inspecting the electrical panel for my house and was wondering about this stuff

-the overhead service drop is 3 wire

-the meter was a 200cl

-the main breaker and panel is rated 100 amps

-the SEC was in this gray sheathing that looked weatherproof but didn’t have any UL labeling. does exterior conduit or SEC cable have to be labeled?

-i couldn’t find any labeling on the sheathing of the individual SEC cables that feed the breakers but they almost filled the entire space of their terminals. how do i determine the gauge and if it is ok for the main breaker rating?

-four wires came through the SEC feed. one was a white cable that bonded the neutral bus bar. there is a rigid conduit near the meter that goes into the ground. is that ok or could the ground be tapped to the SEC neutral?

-the three SEC wires were all black but one of them terminated right before entering the panel with the conductors exposed. can i assume that this is just an extra cable that is not active or is this a serious problem?

-there is a large gauge wire tapped into one of the neutral bus bar terminals that all the receptacles are tapped to and simply exits the house and buries straight into the ground. is that for grounding and does that work?

thanks in advance for your help, i can’t wait to become a NACHI inspector.

2

-the overhead service drop is 3 wire

The service is 120/240 volts

-the meter was a 200cl

Means nothing

-the main breaker and panel is rated 100 amps

So the capacity is 100 amps

-the SEC was in this gray sheathing that looked weatherproof but didn’t have any UL labeling.

The SEC (drop or lateral) belongs to the utility company

does exterior conduit or SEC cable have to be labeled?

Cable assemblies must be listed and labled

-i couldn’t find any labeling on the sheathing of the individual SEC cables that feed the breakers but they almost filled the entire space of their terminals. how do i determine the gauge and if it is ok for the main breaker rating?

???

-four wires came through the SEC feed.

I thought you said it was a 3-wire service. Where did the fourth wire come from?

one was a white cable that bonded the neutral bus bar.

I assume you mean conductor (not cable). That would be the service neutral.

there is a rigid conduit near the meter that goes into the ground.

???

is that ok or could the ground be tapped to the SEC neutral?

The grounding electrode conductor is required to be bonded to the service neutral at the service equipment.

-the three SEC wires were all black but one of them terminated right before entering the panel with the conductors exposed.

Hmm. Back to a 3-wire service? Terminated at what or where?

can i assume that this is just an extra cable that is not active or is this a serious problem?

???

-there is a large gauge wire tapped into one of the neutral bus bar terminals that all the receptacles are tapped to and simply exits the house and buries straight into the ground. is that for grounding and does that work?

Was it attached to a water pipe or a ground rod?

thanks in advance for your help, i can’t wait to become a NACHI inspector.

Pictures would be very helpful for providing answers to your questions.

Posting as “son of sam” will not get you the best possible results. You may want to re-think that.

3

i couldn’t find any labeling on the sheathing of the individual SEC cables that feed the breakers but they almost filled the entire space of their terminals. how do i determine the gauge and if it is ok for the main breaker rating?

???

the conductors that feed the hot bus bars didnt have a gauge labeled onto them like romex does infact the conductor sheathing was black and had no labeling whatsoever

-four wires came through the SEC feed.

I thought you said it was a 3-wire service. Where did the fourth wire come from?

i dont understand it either, 3 were black and one was white

the three SEC wires were all black but one of them terminated right before entering the panel with the conductors exposed.

Hmm. Back to a 3-wire service? Terminated at what or where?

it was one of the black conductors, it was cut short right before the panel and the actual aluminum strands exposed, do electricians sometimes have an extra hot conductor that isnt live feed into the panel?

-there is a large gauge wire tapped into one of the neutral bus bar terminals that all the receptacles are tapped to and simply exits the house and buries straight into the ground. is that for grounding and does that work?

Was it attached to a water pipe or a ground rod?

it was a black conductor just like the hot main conductors and it does nothing more that exit the panel and bury straight into the ground, i wonder if is grounding something or if it is grounding the panel, i found a cable on the bonding terminal of that neutral bus (the opposite neutral bus was bonded with the white conductor leading to the meter)and it is attached to the water main

Pictures would be very helpful for providing answers to your questions.

i’ll try to take some soon

Posting as “son of sam” will not get you the best possible results. You may want to re-think that

i didnt mean to offended anybody or anything, my fathers name was sam and he would joke sometimes that i was son of sam

4

I agree that a pic seems like the only real answer. That will obviously clear things right up.

I also though the “son of sam” thing was a play on the 70’s criminal. I see now it has real relavance to you, which is cool.
There are some here who have real issues with folks not using their “real” names. They feel we have something to hide and are more or less second class. Don’t let it bother you. The majority of folks here are real nice, Jeff IS one of them.

5

I agree, some pictures please!

I usually have difficulty finding labelings on the conduit run to the meter; that’s why I took the time to go to an electrical supply center and asked around. Suprisingly, they were receptive and showed the different conduits and wire gauges. I bought a foot of the major wire gauges (for 60 A, 100 A, 125 A, ect.) so that I could visually identify the appropriate conductor sizes (aluminum and copper) to determine if wire gauge is suitable; its too much of a pain to cite labeling in crowded panels with no clearance around them (and not a lot of inspection time).

I’d recommend you start attending your local HI training seminars, its never too soon.

6

Ditto with the name, wasn’t sure what to make of it.

I have to admit it Pete, at first I had you pegged as one of those tradesmen who has expectations of us (some reasonable, some not) of HI’s conceived only through the mindset of your trade. But I’ve come to like reading posts from you because you bring the insight of your experiences. Thanks Pete!

Don’t mistake Jeff’s bluntness for rudeness. I respect a man who tells it how it is.

7

two black conductors feed the hot bus, a white conductor is bonded to the neutral bus, the terminating black conductor is right above and behind the UPC were the conductors feed into the panel

i couldnt get a good picture of the black conductor on the neutral bus, its a large copper strand one, its actually tapped to two bus lugs, it goes straight through the panel out of the house and into the ground

panel 003.jpg

panel 001.jpg

panel 002.jpg

8

i forgot is that neutral bus bar bonding ok with it having the aluminum SEC conductor and copper water main conductor sharing the same terminal?

9

That’s an amateur installation if I’ve ever seen one.

There are many issues with this panel which should be corrected. Can post a clean shot of the entire panel? I wouldn’t be too concerned about the neutral bus bonding at this point. It may be time to “start over.”

10

the home inspector just tell me to have an electrician evaluate the service before i bought the house, i got the seller to do it but what is up with this panel? it is on a loose base with missing bushings and all kinds of stupid stuff, shouldnt the inspector told me what was actually wrong? i wonder if the electrician even looked at the panel or if the seller ignored him

11

all i saw that changed was GFCI’s installed in the kitchen and basement and splices put in junction boxes

12

If you had an electrician in to check things that panel shoud have been on the top of the list!

13

All I can say is…Don’t hire that electrician…he got his card out of a cereal box…:slight_smile:

14

Yeah, I sure as hell wouldn’t hire the electrician who set up the box either.

As for the HI, yeah he should have specified what was wrong. Sounds like one of those six-a-day inspectors who is in and out after checking the boxes of a generic checklist that tells you next to nothing about your property (especially if you don’t know the jargon). How do you know where to begin on such a panel or if there is an urgent need to repair the panel when all you get is the generic “see an electrician” response? And a seller will cut all the corners when they aren’t specifically told what to do. Don’t hire that HI again unless you plan on collecting from his/her E & O…

15

By the way son of sam, I’d strongly consider changing that name. I know what it means to you but its just not the kind of name for this kind of forum. There are members who are very upset by it…