Why are you in an up roar? If you cannot find certain defects, what does it matter? When the client suffers damage and you get sued, then just laugh and tell them at least you found the keyhole. :mrgreen:
Ha ha, it’s all good. Nothing matters.
Actually David, Condo Bob voice allows is the best side of all IMO.
There are three sides to the truth. his, hers and home sciences.
I always listen to what Condo Bob has to say.
You can not deny a verified professional a seat at the table to openly express his opinion.
Best regards David.
I’m not discussing his reputation.
You agree with his analogy that those in the thermography field who have invested time and money only voice negative opinions of “just getting by” because of their investment?
What do we have to gain by this?
Thermography 101 discusses the ability of the thermal camera. Excessive do a spot size ratio, thermal sensitivity, resolution of the camera array… Now somebody who admittedly knows nothing about what he’s talking about has something to talk about?
Bob has always had great toys! Some of the best digital cameras I have purchased are because of Bob. Bob admittedly has not studied thermography and in my opinion is performing a disservice to others that do not know better…
Doing a dis service for daring ask questions?
David I have found non functioning ceil heat coils with my $50 thermometer so maybe the guys with iPhone snap on devices will look down on me and say I did my client a disservice?
Most of my inspections involve nothing more than voltage detectors, a screwdriver and a flashlight so perhaps I am a terrible inspector.
Bob, I’m not picking on you and I have nothing against you. I consider you to be quite knowledgeable. I just didn’t appreciate your condescending remarks about people that have taken thermal imaging “Seriously”! That wasn’t a question you made, it was a statement.
You generally have a lot of good stuff to say and I read every one of your posts. But to insinuate that somebody that spent a considerable part of their career maximizing their potential is only mocking Internet toys that are adequate and above reproach is off-base.
All I’m asking is that if you don’t know, skip the subject! I’ve got someone that can’t perceive a side-by-side comparison on another thread as being significant. Like we need a whole lot more of that going on!
I thought my keychain flashlight comment was “spot on”! Yes you can find your keyhole, but you can’t see across an attic or crawlspace! Important thing is that you realize you don’t go out and inspect a warehouse with the keychain flashlight! Unbelievably, some people think they can!
David I 100‰ get it but so often it seems anytime someone wants to purchase reasonable prices equipment to scan it is inferred they should be incarcerated until they become full fledged $$$ consumers of higher ir education and premium priced equipment. Not much different than if I show an obvious mold shot and have a industrial hygienist chastise me for not having it tested first.
I saw a in house demo of the iPhone devise and the thing works.
As good as a expensive model… Hell no but everything does not need to be perfect to assist.
I am not suggesting anyone market themselves as doing ir nor would I but to say flat out keep it in your pocket and not use it is like telling a adolescent boy the same thing. Lol.
That’s true Bob, and I would be perfectly happy if inspectors would buy cameras that will do the job and only do that job that they are capable of.
As you wade through the Internet websites you’ll see all kinds of claims to fame without that unnecessary education or specific equipment for the job. That’s what gives the industry the black eye and makes me spout off.
I think it’s a matter of perspective rather than projection however.
It may seem like you’re constantly being told to do it right and get the right equipment but when you get a thermal scan that you can’t even view on your computer greater than 50 x 50 pixels without significant distortion and pixelation, trying to determine a <2° temperature differential anomaly how can you help but point out the fact that they are attempting the impossible?
David I understand what you are trying top prevent which is guys with not even a level one certifications and cheap cameras pretending to be capable of what you do.
Simply feel the cheap ones are a good ice breaker for guys to begin prerequisite or find simple items .
All good till it goes bad.
The concern is this… if you pull out an IR camera that can only find the “simple items” and you miss a big issue, then are safe from liability because you say to the angry client that “my IR camera is just a cheap one used for breaking the ice?”
Once you pull out the IR camera, the client may be expecting you to find the big ticket itmes. Do you think they might expect more from a Professional?
I too like your comments and think your a good home inspector Bob. This is not an attack on you as a person.
John I suggest guys simply using it as an assistance not even mention using it .
Maybe not clear enough.
If I …if…decide to buy a low end model would simply think of it as an extension and not use it for any marketing.
I am not into hoopla or circus theatrics to get clients calling.Prefer low key word of mouth as much as possible .
All this liability talk is hoopla as well.
Anyone paranoid is in the wrong business.
Liability, in the proper context, is just sound advise. I am not trying to sell you a camera. No one appears to be paranoid.
Good tools for the right job and proper training is not hoopla.
Why attach all these words to sound advise.?
Giving out advise about IR and never having used an IR camera and never being trained might be closer to the word hoopla. But I would never say that :mrgreen:
Me too!
Bob, On the liability thing. You find a lot of things with TI that are not readily accessible or observable. If you call out a water leak and someone has to take down their kitchen ceiling and there is no leak there, who do you expect will be paying to put it back?
If you say, use a moisture meter to verify thermal imaging, you still may have the liability because moisture meters pickup density changes which could actually be a thermal bridge creating the apparent water anomaly.
Liability in thermal imaging is a very large consideration that should not be treated lightly.
When you pick up a thermal imaging camera you go from a “visual only inspection” of the home inspection to " I can see something behind that wall…". That in of itself is the liability created by the client’s expectations of what they are paying for.
Shower pan leak into hall way… I doubt a cheapo camera would have caught it (we’ll never know), and without thermal, there really wasn’t a visible indication. Fresh paint on walls, and tile looked OK from shower side.
Here are two shots of my Van, one with a Seek and the other with my E40bx. Both taken from the same spot in my yard.
How about putting them in the same palette?
The span of the palette matters.
Also 'size matters".
http://i572.photobucket.com/albums/ss162/dandersen_02/seeKThermal_share_1418927161991.jpg
How about posting the radiometric scans so we can show you just what you can/can’t do with this information…
There is not much you can do with the Seek. There is a limited color scale, and no temperature scale. There is a high/low feature, but thats it. It is no more than a toy, which is what it should be used for.
And there you have it, size does matter lol
Well, the top picture looks horrible.