Seller wants me to pay for faulty wiring

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1

Originally Posted By: jgallant
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While backing out a screw on a sub panel cover today (I hadn’t taken either the sub-panel cover or the service panel cover off yet), a “boom” noise occurred with plenty of sparks inside the sub-panel. A double-pole 60 amp breaker labeled “Furnace” had tripped. My guess is that a hot wire was in contact with the panel cover screw and that it shorted out. Glad I’m alive.


I left a note for the seller explaining what happened, and not to reset the breaker, and to have an electrician evaluate and repair, and to call me and discuss. The seller called and expects me to arrange and pay for all and any repairs.

Any thoughts?

--
-Jim Gallant
Owner, All Point Home Inspections - Poulsbo, WA www.allpointinspections.com
Co-founder, ReportHost (Web-based report writing service) www.reporthost.com

2

Originally Posted By: kmcmahon
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yeah…tell him that he should be glad it wasn’t him (or the new owner)getting the crap shocked out of him due to EXISTING faulty wiring in the panel and that he’s lucky you didn’t have to send him a hospital bill, and that he can “shove” his electrical repair bill.


Glad to hear your ok... ![icon_eek.gif](upload://yuxgmvDDEGIQPAyP9sRnK0D0CCY.gif) That story gives me the willy's!

--
Wisconsin Home Inspection, ABC Home Inspection LLC

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3

Originally Posted By: dbowers
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to hold the panel cover in place AND that was a SAFETY HAZARD. I ginergly unscrewed the 1st two screws - no problem. The 3rd screw came out half way AND THEN pop, spark, fizz, etc. breakers tripped and then the lights went out.


When I got the electricity back on, 2 breakers had been deep fried.

(1) The breaker for the electric furnace AND (2) the breaker feeding the sub-panel in the outbuilding, which had three (3) freezers FULL of Steaks, hamburger, elk meat, roasts, fish, etc.

The sellers husband was in the military and overseas - they were not from this area, and her family was in Carolina.

No heat & a thousand dollars OR SO of frozen food de-thawing.

By the way she had 2 kids under 4 and was 7-8 months pregnant. What a nightmare that was!! I called an electrician I know in the CITY and after BEGGING got him out on Christmas EVE for repairs. I paid for the seller and her kids to stay at a motel over the weekend. I paid for the repairs AND YOU KNOW WHAT !!!

Everyone blamed ME - not the bad wiring job, etc.

I've never heard from the realtor, buyer or seller again. That taught me a very valuable lesson. Since then if anything breaks while I'm inspecting it - ESPECIALLY - if it was jerry-rigged to start with - TOUGH $hit!

Not my problem Mr. Seller - it failed under testing AND its yours NOT mine.

4

Originally Posted By: dcarroll
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It’s a good argument for protective clothing. There is no way you can know that something like that will happen. The owner was probably the person responsible for that set-up. Was that an electric furnace?

5

Originally Posted By: jgallant
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dcarroll wrote:
It's a good argument for protective clothing. There is no way you can know that something like that will happen. The owner was probably the person responsible for that set-up. Was that an electric furnace?


Yes, electric furnace plus a heat pump.

--
-Jim Gallant
Owner, All Point Home Inspections - Poulsbo, WA www.allpointinspections.com
Co-founder, ReportHost (Web-based report writing service) www.reporthost.com
6

Originally Posted By: LJ Johnson
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I agree with DAn Bowers completely. If you break it pay for it, but if its stuck together with glue or done improperly and breaks - its the sellers.


You get a rep with real estate agents as a soft touch and they'll try again.

7

Originally Posted By: jgallant
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Thanks Dan for your most excellent story. I wrote the seller the letter below and sent it this morning:



Dear Mr. so-and-so,

Regarding the defective wiring in your electrical system's sub panel (the one to the left of the main service panel), this condition existed before I performed my inspection. In no way did I perform any action that would cause any problems with your wiring. As I mentioned twice in the note I left for you in your kitchen, I hadn't even removed any panel cover yet, I was only unscrewing the screws holding the sub panel cover on when the incident occurred. Simply removing panel covers will not cause damage to wiring where the wiring is installed correctly. As such, I will not assume any responsibility for repairs needed to this system.

Most professional organizations for home inspectors, including the American Society of Home Inspectors (ASHI), the National Association of Certified Home Inspectors (NACHI) and the National Association of Home Inspectors (NAHI) have Standards of Practice that require home inspectors to remove all accessible electric panel covers so inspectors can describe and evaluate the wiring and interior components. For example:

American Society of Home Inspectors Standards of Practice
Section 7.1.A.5 ELECTRICAL SYSTEM
The inspector shall inspect the interior components of service panels and sub panels.

National Association of Home Inspectors Standards of Practice
Section 9.2.3 Procedures for Inspection
Inspect the main and branch circuit conductors for proper over current protection and condition by visual observation after removal of the readily accessible main and sub electric panel cover(s).

I've included a copy of the American Society of Home Inspectors Standards of Practice for reference.

Your expecting me to be responsible for repairs to this system is analgous to me walking on your deck, the deck collapsing, then your expecting me to pay for repairs to your deck. I merely found an existing problem with your wiring. I did not create a problem. I genuinely regret your being incovenienced by this, but I also feel fortunate that I or my clients weren't seriously injured, or worse, by this defective wiring.

For the record, I made every attempt to contact you as soon as possible regarding this, including:

1. Writing a note describing in detail exactly what I did and didn't do in attempting to evaluate the sub panel
2. Asked both the buyers' real estate agent and your agent for your phone number(s)
3. Left a message on your answering machine when I returned home

Sincerely,

Jim Gallant

--
-Jim Gallant
Owner, All Point Home Inspections - Poulsbo, WA www.allpointinspections.com
Co-founder, ReportHost (Web-based report writing service) www.reporthost.com

8

Originally Posted By: hgordon
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Dude…Failed during Inspection!

9

Originally Posted By: jhorton
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I am not sure what I would do in this particular situation but I see another side to could work to your advantage.


You could do something similar to what you did, explaining how it was not your fault. That there was no way you could have caused it. Then you say, but because I value your business and want you to use me again (aiming at the Realtor) pay for the repairs.

Again, it would depend on the the situation and all the facts. Sometimes you you can make the situation work for your advantage.

--
Jeff <*\\><
The man who tells the truth doesn't have to remember what he said.

10

Originally Posted By: dbowers
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Jeff -


Please refer to my earlier post in this topic. This sort of thing has happened to 4-5 times in 25 years of inspecting. I've never yet had it do me any good to pay for something that was defective to start with.

On top of that you can then get a realtor thinking you'll do that the next time it happens - OR WORSE YET - they start thinking the rest of us are BAD LITTLE HOME INSPECTORS because WE WON'T Pay for that $hit.

Not a good idea for either yourself or the profession.

11

Originally Posted By: rbracklow
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Jim,


You did exactly what I would do!! First of all, I would never admit fault or pay for repairs for good vendor relations. In this case, no one knows how much internal damage was done. There probably has been over amperage on this and or other close by circuits that have high resistance or burnt wires, and you could wind up rewiring the entire house!

You mentioned that you had several people standing by while you were removing the screws? If that is the case, they will testify that had not so much as removed the cover, and in this case definitely need some investigatory work performed and evaluation by others.

Stand your ground and state that it is not your responsibility to repair previous faulted wiring.

God Luck,

Ron Bracklow, PE

--
The highest compliment my clients can give me, is the referral of their Friends, Family and Business Associates!

NorCal NACHI Chapter Founder and Chairman.

12

Originally Posted By: Mike Parks
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Removing and replacing panel covers are the most dangerous part of my job. No matter which ‘hat’ that I am wearing.


Turning off the power to the panel is highly recommended.

Mike P.

13

Originally Posted By: rbracklow
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Mike,


I have a question for you - what happens when the Main Breakers are under the panel that you are attempting to open??

Ron.

--
The highest compliment my clients can give me, is the referral of their Friends, Family and Business Associates!

NorCal NACHI Chapter Founder and Chairman.

14

Originally Posted By: Mike Parks
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Ron


Good question. I turn it off.

Rarely if ever (never) would the entrance cables 'jump' out at you.

I thought I was getting scared about electricity until I had a friend (another master) help me (since I am a one man band) with a service change.

When 'firing' up the new panel he stood to the side of the panel as each breaker was engaged.

Until you have had something blow-up on you, you will not take electric seriously.

Mike P.

15

Originally Posted By: jrice
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Guys,


I can not agree more about the safety aspect! At my regular job I get to reset disconnect panels where 12,400 volts are behind the cover. Nothing like sticking your finger in a little hole to trip the springs that reset the panel! icon_evil.gif First time was the worst. We always use insulated gloves and try to stand off to one side. We also never do it unless someone else is observing.


Jeff

16

Originally Posted By: jgallant
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Well it’s been over a month now, and after writing a letter to the seller saying this wasn’t my fault, I haven’t heard anything from him. So it seems that he accepted my claim of not being at fault. Glad it didn’t erupt into a conflict.

–
-Jim Gallant


Owner, All Point Home Inspections - Poulsbo, WA www.allpointinspections.com


Co-founder, ReportHost (Web-based report writing service) www.reporthost.com

17

Originally Posted By: kmcmahon
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Hopefully it’s not the calm before the storm…but would hope that they have seen the situation in a new light! icon_wink.gif

–
Wisconsin Home Inspection, ABC Home Inspection LLC


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18

Originally Posted By: rpalac
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I have become aware that I now need to update and change my pre-inspection form to include wording to limit liability and insidents caused by defective, sub-standard or failed products in the home. I will also require that this be signed in advance of the inspection by the seller or authorized agent for the seller.


I also would like to make acomment to the individual who suggested to stick it to the realtor. Your another asshole....

That is exactly the problem. Every one wants to sherk responsibility and place the ownis else where. Leave the realtor out of it unless he has authorized the signature to do the work. As a realtor previously I have been sued by a errored wood infestation inspection. This very same method cost me 3K, when I had nothing to do with the choices or the inspection.

I guess what I'm saying in short as our business grows we have to make our forms common to prevent or deal with these items.

Bob

19

Originally Posted By: kmcmahon
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I didn’t read anywhere where anyone said anything about sticking the realtors with it???

–
Wisconsin Home Inspection, ABC Home Inspection LLC


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20

Originally Posted By: rpalac
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I might have misunderstood the comment made by Jeff on July 10. If so, my apology.


Have you had a chance to resolve the outcome. What is the general concensous of handling these in the future.