Originally Posted By: eschwartz
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http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/D/DSCN1345.JPG ]
Thanks
Ed
http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/D/DSCN1345.JPG ]
Thanks
Ed
Originally Posted By: jpope
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Cable assemblies are not required to be contained in conduit.
SE = Service Entrance
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Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
Originally Posted By: eschwartz
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Thanks Jeff,
Ed
Originally Posted By: roconnor
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Looks like 4/0 AL service entrance feeders (not #4), which would be rated at 200A. What did the service feeders look like outside, and were they protected from damage?
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Robert O’Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee
I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong
Originally Posted By: eschwartz
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Hey Robert,
Right, 4/0, thats what I meant..... 
All the exterior service wire from the weather-head to the exterior panel are protected in 2" conduit, 4/0 ALU as well, but not as an assembly. (Exterior panel w/ one 200 amp breaker.) Nothing out of the ordinary. The cable assembly, as Jeff calls it, begins at this panel and runs inside the house to the breaker panel. I assume this cable assembly is subject to the same restrictions as any cable in a house.
Ed
Originally Posted By: wdecker
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“Cable assemblies are not required to be contained in conduit.”
They are in Illinois. All wiring must be enclosed in pipe or EMT.
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Will Decker
Decker Home Services
Skokie, IL 60076
wjd@DeckerHomeServices.com
Originally Posted By: roconnor
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Will … are you thinking about exterior service entrance wiring, where the “subject to damage” provisions in most model codes kicks in and can be a little sticky?
Ed noted that the exterior SE wiring was in conduit, which is why I asked. So we are really talking about interior wiring. Do local codes actually modify the model codes to require SE wiring inside to be in conduit? Pretty restrictive local modifications in my opinion if thats the case.
Just my opinions and 2-nickles ... 
--
Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee
I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong
Originally Posted By: wdecker
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According to the Chicago code, which has been adopted by most or the suburbs, ALL wiring, with the possible exception of doorbell wire is to be enclosed, interior or exterior.
I have seen Chicago code inspectors require 5 volt comuter cable running in a plenum ceiling to be put in EMT, as well as intercom wire and cable TV wire.
The rule here is when in doubt, put it in EMP or pipe. armored cable is allowed only for whips of 6' or less.
That is why I am so amazed by most of your panel pictures, where you have romex and other non-metallic and non-armored cable running all over the place.
If you have an outlet right next to the service panel, they will require you to put it in EMT rather than BX, the 6' whip rule not withstanding.
--
Will Decker
Decker Home Services
Skokie, IL 60076
wjd@DeckerHomeServices.com
Originally Posted By: roconnor
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The Chicago code sounds similar to the old NY City code, where things like sheathed cable and PVC plumbing were not permitted. A little while ago the codes were updated to also permit those very common residential materials. You might see that change there also.
Another reason not to quote code in reports ... unless you are very familiar with those provisions, stay on top of all the local amendments, and know how the local codes are interpreted by the local building inspectors.
Local code ammendments aside, I think the real sticky part of SE cable is when it's run exposed on the outside of a house.
--
Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee
I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong
Originally Posted By: wdecker
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Agreed.
I have an advantage in thay my best friend (known him since Kidergarden) is the former Asst. Chief electrical inspector for the City of Chicago and is now an instructor in the local electrical union school. I have a ready source to check stuff out, as well as get edumicated my own self.
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Will Decker
Decker Home Services
Skokie, IL 60076
wjd@DeckerHomeServices.com
Originally Posted By: jpope
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| wdecker wrote: |
| They are in Illinois. All wiring must be enclosed in pipe or EMT. |
Local jurisdictions may vary.
In any event, if continuos shielding and/or encasement is required in your state/city, there would be little need for these "pre-assembled" cable assemblies like SEC, UF or even Romex for that matter. Most sprarkies I know prefer to pull individual conductors through conduit.
--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
Originally Posted By: bbadger
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Here in the North East SE cable is very common from weathered to the panel typically located in the cellar.
If the service is on a driveway many inspectors in this area will expect pipe for the potion subject to damage.
In my bias opinion the Chicago code has more to do with a strong labor organization looking to 'make' work than any real safety issues.
I have some pictures of wood frame houses wired entirely in EMT, to most of us that is serious overkill. The fact that they will not allow even armored cable to be used to wire a house IMO speaks volumes about the true motivation in these rules.
Bob
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Bob Badger
Electrical Construction & Maintenance
Moderator at ECN
Originally Posted By: wdecker
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Not disagreeing with you, Bob. The unions and the government / union / builder complex has been very incestuious in this area, and many of the suburbs go the way Chicago does.
But on the other side of the picture, if ther is ever an overheating problem or fire situation, the wires are REALLY rpotected, aren't they.
Sure, it means more work for the contractor, which means higher costs. But what has happened in recent years is that the Union guys are getting out of residential construction and going to commercial (or,. at least, big high rise type condos). This leaves the residential construction to the little guy who usually is not union. But they still have to meet the same codes.
Basicly, the trade unions in Illinois are dwindling. They are pricing themselves out of the market.
--
Will Decker
Decker Home Services
Skokie, IL 60076
wjd@DeckerHomeServices.com