Addressing the original question: I do not recommend “walking away” during testing.
You never know what might happen when you’re not around. The drains could eventually stop up and overflow the curb.
I had a near catastrophe on one occasion in a very large home. I was testing the whirlpool tub. The drain stop did not hold and while I was inspecting the rest of the massive master suite the Jets shot water all over the place.
Luckily the entire master bath was tile and was okay after a speedy cleanup.
Personally I feel that using a drain stop properly used is appropriate. Higher water elevation increases pressure and may find a leak otherwise unobservable.
I do not use one. I stand in the middle of the road on this one. I operate the shower for an extended period of time while I am in the bathroom. If it does not leak during this “normal usage”, I think I’m covered. [size=2]Although there is a standard as to how high the shower pan should be constructed[FONT=Tahoma], there is no standard for inspecting shower pans. Should the water be elevated 1.5 inches or 2.0 inches. If you make a mistake and reached 2.25 inches you may be responsible for the leak damage. What is the probability of water levels reaching 2 inches in a properly constructed shower? If someone leaves a washcloth over the drain? That’s a “flooding condition” and the homeowner is going to have to prove the elevation of the water to call me at fault.
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Another thing I do not test is bathtub overflows. I have had a few tubs fill to the overflow (because the whirlpool jets are only inches below the overflow in some designs) while inspecting other bathroom components and too many of the few that reached the overflow leaked due to improper installation. Because the probability of leakage is high, I don’t think there’s any reason to intentionally go there. If someone in the family overflows the tub and it leaks, well, so be it. There is nothing in the state standards of practice requiring this testing, so I just don’t do it.
Overflowing the bathtub is not “normal operation” for the homeowner. I limit my inspections to the normal operation of the house and the inspection of “existing conditions”. So, if the tile shower is leaking, there is evidence there somewhere. If it’s visual, I’m required to report it. If not, it’s not part of my job description.
Do not get me wrong, I do not hide behind the standards of practice for “not doing something”. We just must draw a line somewhere. As I said, mine is in the middle of the road on this one.
Please explain what is so technically exhaustive about raising the water level in a shower stall I have a pet monkey that can do that. Sorry that just raises my hair. We are responsibile for leaks within a home that is why they hire us.
I have been inspecting shower stall for 12 years and average at least one a month leaking I have found as many as two in one week. I would not be able to look in the mirror every morning just thinking what I might have missed.
Bathtub, shower, and sink overflows are not tested for leaks because of water damage that could result from such testing. Plumbing for the overflow is generally concealed within the walls and cannot be inspected properly.
No signs of moisture stains or damage prior to testing this shower pan. Note the second photo with water running out into the patio from under the exterior wall.
This is a very interesting thread and very enlightening.
I can’t believe we have not heard from the legal scaredy-cats! They must be back there pulling their hair out!
When I read some of the stuff here about how someone is going to misconstrue some far-fetched Wizard of Oz scenario, it makes my stomach curdle.
In this instance, we are testing a plumbing fixture by altering how it normally functions and how it is used. The result of the test, is water pouring out of the side of the house! Then we have those moldy guys hanging around waiting for a drip of water to activate the petri dish and spread black plague throughout the house. I just don’t know what to think about this one!
I agree that the defect requires consideration, however if a home inspector comes into my house and floods it out and leaves, telling me I have to replace my shower that has not leaked in 15 years of living here, I think I might have something to say about that!
Where are all the guys that are afraid of turning on an air conditioner at 65°?
You can’t do that because it might damage something. Yeah right!
Well daaaaaaaaa… if I plug up this shower drain, might something happen?
It’s not that the test should not be done, it’s about how the test is done that bothers me.
I filled up a whirlpool tub one-time in a new construction inspection and when I pulled the drain stop, it flooded the basement, the entire tub of water! The plumbing contractor did not install the tailpiece! I felt pretty bad about that one and it wasn’t even remotely my fault!
Anyone have a national testing protocol standard to share?
I don’t know about a national standard but I have one of my own. Shower pan liners are basically 6 inches in height and I raise the water level to two inches. The tile can be leaking and no detection device will determine this. The problem I have is we went through a housing boom in the late 60 to early and mid 70’s tremendous amount of shower stalls with lead pans when the tile starts to leak it can not be detected until it eats away the lead. One can make book that a lead shower pan 30 to 35 years in age is leaking or will be leaking shortly, if it has not been replaced. The new plastic liners that are now being used will be a different story. We found one of the new plastic liners that was leaking at the corner due to improperly folder corner that was detected after the plumber removed the tile
We all have our standards, they’re called business practices.
You do what’s right for you and what happens in your area.
Just because you create your own standard does not mean you’re wrong just because nobody else does it.
I can just picture Mr. new home inspector stopping up the shower drain and overflowing the shower pan that is not visible.
I would just be more comfortable if someone set a standard for testing.
My state inspection law says we will test the reverse operation of a garage door opener.
When the door breaks, it’s not my fault because it’s a required test.
I would be more inclined to flood a new construction shower because the builder is standing by to tear it all out and make it right. Whoever put the pan in gets blamed and they are right there. New construction has a more readily available standard for these pans versus a 100-year-old house.
I would also be more inclined to do a first floor shower that has a crawlspace or unfinished basement below.
The shower above a finished ceiling can be evaluated with equipment like infrared camera or a moisture meter and documentation that a leak was not detected at the time of inspection can be reported without the high danger of damaging something from testing.
Hey Joe did I say I don’t inspect showers? I look for evidence of a leak that may have happened. Unfortunately, you can get anything to leak if you work at it hard enough. If I can’t find a leak during normal operation then whatever fixture I am testing is considered okay. Do you plug the drain on a dishwasher to see if the door seal leaks.
How many of the showers would he have found leaking without filling the basin? I find a few of them during a years inspecting, but not by filling the pan with water.
I carry three of those overflow testers with me, two full height, one cut down to an inch for testing ill constructed shower pans with low thresholds. I also carry four of these:
I set them in front of dishwashers and showers and lower the sensors below tub rims when I need to fill a tub and walk away from it, if they detect water they are loud enough to hear from the third-floor when you are down in the basement.
I frequently find leaks in shower pans using these techniques, the most common cause is that of somebody has nailed through a liner and inch or two above its transition to horizontal.
The only time I’ve ever had a seller upset was when I found multiple leaking shower pans in a very expensive new development, the developer has been bad mouthing me since every chance he gets - and the result has been an increase in referral business.
I follow the water alarms however do you have a picture of your overflow testers? Trying to get an idea no how your doing it. Got any pictures of the shower while your actually testing?
I don’t walk away from running water. The exception is I will inspect the adjacent master bedroom simultaneously, while frequently looking back at the shower or spa tub as it is filling. I’d rather sit there and twiddle my thumbs than have a tub or shower overflow and cause serious damage. My fear is that I will get distracted, perhaps in a conversation with someone, and forget to go back to the running water.
I always take a photo of the water test, in case the buyer comes back to me a year later claiming their shower stall is leaking. I can prove I went beyond the call of duty during the inspection.
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