Siemens sub panel

Inspected a Siemens sub panel connected in the main service panel with a 50 amp breaker. The there were no neutral or ground wires attached to the neutral and ground bar. The neutral and ground wires were attached on the neutral and ground bar in the main service panel that was adjacent to the sub panel. Also, the neutral bar in the sub panel was attached to the panel with a bonding strap. Sorry I don’t have a better picture of the main service panel. Recommendations or advise please.

This is wrong…
NEC 300-3 (b) says “All conductors of the same circuit, the grounded conductor and all equipment grounding conductors shall be contained within the same raceway, cable tray, trench, cable, or cord.”
That includes the fact that all conductors for a circuit should originate within the same panelboard enclosure, which is not happening here.
I would call it out and defer to a sparky.

Mike A,

All the conductors are in the same raceway, cable etc. It does not say that they need to originate at the same panelboard. Your are extending the concept to panelboards, but I do not think you can cite code to support that position.

My sparky apprentice days are gone, and my NEC is rusty, so I could not find the exact quotation for the origination of circuits.
I know that 210.4 does not apply, because these are not necessarily MWBC’s. If anyone can find the the proper reference, please let us know.
Look at picture number 2: The ungrounded conductors enter that nipple, which is like a raceway, but they are not accompanied by their neutrals; So, what I said still applies.
And, regardless of the exact NEC reference, you and I both know that this is not right.
At the very least, it is contrary to all acceptable trade practices.
These shenanigans are indicative of a DIY “handywork”, and should be called out.

Don’t forget that there is an exception for non metallic wiring methods. I do not know if it happens to apply to the photo shown.

A white conductor in a raceway cannot be re-identified as an EGC.

Where are the branch circiit neutrals in the sub panel? None then its wrong. And the ground strap has to be disconnected in the sub panel.

Much of what other have said. The ungrounded conductors (hots) must be in the same race way as the neutrals, same goes for them not terminating int he same panel enclosure. Open KOs at the bottom.

BTW, just asking is this a resi? Just asking since its a 3 phase panel.

Where are you seeing a three phase panel?

Are you sure that it’s 3Ø? I only see two bus bars in photo #4.

You are mistaken these are 2 phase panels pic 1 and 4 clearly show this!

Two phase power has not been used for a very long time AFAIK. That is most likely a 120/240 volt single phase panel.

I am sorry I have made a mistake i meant to say 120/240 you are right i used the incorrect term
Jim thanks for pointing that out!

No problem Mike. Just here to share knowledge.

The main panel looks like its 3 phase, I see what looks like tri pole breakers? Unless the image is play tricks on me.

I think that you’re right. :cool:

The one panel is loaded with 3 pole CB’s.


Which makes me wonder, what is a 3 phase panel doing in a house? Unless this is a commercial property?

Maybe there are tandems between a single pole?

Im counting 8, 3 pole breakers in the main panel. They look to have factory set handle ties. That is a lot of 3 phase equipment:o