Small gray box with double-tapped wires: what is it?

Attached are photos from service panels that had small gray boxes – one of which had a green LED – attached to the service panel, and double-tapped to two breakers. What is this? Is it supposed to be double-tapped? One of the panels was a recent installation, approved by the city.

Elec panel gray box 8-24-2006.jpg

Elec panel gray box 8-22-2006.jpg

No it should not be double tapped .
Easy fix pig tail it to one wire to breaker .
I do not know what the box is but suspect it could be some sort of a filter to take spikes out of the lines to offer some computer protection .
Have seen some smooth sales people who can sell these things some work better then others .
Roy Cooke

No it should not be double tapped .
Easy fix pig tail it to one wire to breaker .
I do not know what the box is but suspect it could be some sort of a filter to take spikes out of the lines to offer some computer protection .
Have seen some smooth sales people who can sell these things some work better then others .
Roy Cooke

Looks like surge supressor.

Yep, and the double taps should be corrected.

Thanks. I figured the double-taps were improper. Surge protectors make sense.

BTW, what are the best relatively inexpensive surge protectors? My computer and audio equipment are hooked up to Dataguard “surge-protecting” power strips. Is such a thing really very effective? At least it’s not been proven ineffective during my use …

Expensive computer much information you need .
Cheap Protection is like a cheap inspection not much good .
My openion ,others may agree.
Roy Cooke

All surge suppressors should be replaced after a few years. They use MOVs (Metal Oxide Varistors) and some of the MOVs burn up with every surge that they control, therefore, after a period of time the surges render them relatively useless. So, if you plug your new computer into that 10 year old surge strip, you are probably not protected.

I notice that “double taps” are a large part of discussion on this site.

There are circuit breakers installed today and in the past that do permit the installation of more than one conductor. So one cannot randomly say the double tapping is not permitted. The NEC permits double tapping if the manufacturer does, so before you write this up, you should investigate fully first.

Welcome aboard . It is obvious you have not been reading for avile . Yes you are correct there are some Breakers Sqare D is the manufacture .
But to use two wires they must be same size and type and also on oppisite side of the screw.
Glad you are able to visit and learn . Come again
Roy Cooke

For example:

Great picture of a sq.D. luge where the wires go thanks Larry .

Roy Cooke

Roy, first off, Sq D is not the only one who permits this. Many of C-H’s CH series breakers allow it, as well as others I’m sure.

Also, I truly don’t mean to speak for him, and I know we can all learn something, but I seriously doubt there is much you are going to teach Pierre with regard to the electrical field/trade.

I agree with your post concerning double lugging, but how is a home inspector to know which of the many breakers allow 2 wires per terminal? Would it be correct to not note double lugging in your report? Should breakers be labeled as to the number of wire they will accept? It has been established here that some Square D breakers will accept 2 wire of the same size, but are there others? Who has the time and resources to research all the different manufacturers to determine the number of wire their breakers will accept?
I’m still in the learning stage of Home Inspection and it’s important to me to give customers all the information they need.
So, what is the concensus here? How do you report double lugged breakers?

Too simple read here and read previous posts .
There has been much great information posted .
I only know of Sq D being approved for double taps .
Roy Cooke

So are you saying this is the only place to get this information? Because Sq D is the only one you know of that means there are no others?

From a H-I standpoint I’d say report it as a “possible” violation or problem. Although it has been established that it is a very minor issue.

I did not say this was the only place to get this information .
Please do not try and put words in my mouth .
I wonder why why do you not try and give information instead of challenging . Remember you are a guest in our home and it would be nice if you treat us as you would any one else when you visit their place .
You must know this is the only association who welcomes all.
" Also, I truly don’t mean to speak for him, and I know we can all learn something, but I seriously doubt there is much you are going to teach Pierre with regard to the electrical field/trade. "
I have no idea how much knowledge he has or care if he can help me or others great . I welcome him .
My disappointment is with those who come here to ridicule and complain about NACHI.
If you have no use for NACHI and its members It is far from proper to show it in our home .
Roy Cooke . RHI… CAHPI-ON

I did no such thing. It was implied.

On the contrary, I do provide information. If this is seen as a challenge I accept it.
Also, you don’t see me in other categories giving advice where I am not qualified, do you?

This is a bit dramatic, don’t you think?
Now you are the one putting words in mouths. I never even implied such a thing. Who ever “complained” about NACHI?
Maybe it is you who cannot accept correction.

There are several here who are VERY knowledgable with regard to electrical. Steve is one, there are others.
I have found MANY H-I’s are a bit lacking in thier electrical knowledge and I feel I can help inform them. For instance, see the “Bare wire…dryer circuit” thread. There was completely wrong information given. What if this were to make it all the way into an inspection report? If I were the seller I’d be pissed. Because the buyer would only take their report as fact. That is just the way it is in the field.

Quote: Originally Posted by rcooke My disappointment is with those who come here to ridicule and complain about NACHI.
If you have no use for NACHI and its members It is far from proper to show it in our home . This is a bit dramatic, don’t you think?
Now you are the one putting words in mouths. I never even implied such a thing. Who ever “complained” about NACHI?
Maybe it is you who cannot accept correction.

There are several here who are VERY knowledgable with regard to electrical. Steve is one, there are others.
I have found MANY H-I’s are a bit lacking in thier electrical knowledge and I feel I can help inform them. For instance, see the “Bare wire…dryer circuit” thread. There was completely wrong information given. What if this were to make it all the way into an inspection report? If I were the seller I’d be pissed. Because the buyer would only take their report as fact. That is just the way it is in the field.
Please note red above I did not say you are one who is ridiculing NACHI.
I am in Canada and our code is different in yours in many ways.
Please show me the wrong information given re the bare wire . Some old dryers did not require a neutral.
Then it was 220 volts and they had 220 volt clocks
Electrical , I come with a bit of knowledge in the electrical and home inspection also ,if you have been here you just might have noticed .
I am always interested in improving my knowledge .

Roy Cooke … RHI… CAHPI-ON

Pete
Thanks for the kind words!!!

Roy
I lurk here more than I post. I also have posted what I think is info to help the HIs. I myself am an inspector, instructor and an electrical industry advocate. I did not post this to ridicule anyone. I have noticed (I am sure that many of the threads started are about double tapping) that there seems to be much concern about this topic. I posted my comment to help those who read this forum to understand that double tapping may not be a problem.

I have also read in this forum some of the disgust that HI inspectors feel from the disrespect they receive in the real world. If there was a way (and there is through this forum) to help the HIs get more respect, it would be to be more consistant and more careful in how they report to their clients what may be an electrical issue. This way when the electrician (and all electricians are not good) reads the report, if properly written will show just from the wording that the HI is better educated than most electricians think they are.

For those who may want to spend the time to locate the info as to which circuit breakers are listed as suitable for more than one conductor, he/she can visit the particular manufacturer’s website and research which circuit breakers are suitable.
Maybe your organization can put together a list of the different circuit breakers that are listed as suitable… that would be a valuable page for your members to use.

I will even extend my help to your organization to help put together some info for yourselves to be able to document as to what I think would be an asset to produce for members. You could prepare it as a PDF download so the members can carry it with them during inspections or use it back at the office before producing the final report.