Speaking of Zinsco. . .

Originally Posted By: jpope
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I came across this strange configuration today. Can’t say that I understand the logic here. . .


![](upload://5szUuaXgp1LJCE8zy0g7IaNRPb.jpeg)








--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738

Originally Posted By: ekartal
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Glad I wasn’t there. icon_confused.gif


Erol Kartal


Originally Posted By: gbeaumont
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Hi to all,


Good one Jeff, what the heck is all that about, is it industrial/commercial ? It appears to be a 3 phase panel.

Regards

Gerry


--
Gerry Beaumont
NACHI Education Committee
e-mail : education@nachi.org
NACHI phone 484-429-5466

Inspection Depot Education
gbeaumont@inspectiondepot.com

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Originally Posted By: jhagarty
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gbeaumont wrote:

....is it industrial/commercial ? It appears to be a 3 phase panel.


My initial thoughts as well.


--
Joseph Hagarty

HouseMaster / Main Line, PA
joseph.hagarty@housemaster.com
www.householdinspector.com

Phone: 610-399-9864
Fax : 610-399-9865

HouseMaster. Home inspections. Done right.

Originally Posted By: gbeaumont
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Hi to all


Jeff's post got me researching this one, here is a link to ECN covering this panel, it is a 3 phase from the mid 70's:

http://www.electrical-contractor.net/ubb/Forum17/HTML/000099.html


What were you inspecting that had that panel Jeff ![icon_confused.gif](upload://qv5zppiN69qCk2Y6JzaFYhrff8S.gif)

Regards

Gerry


--
Gerry Beaumont
NACHI Education Committee
e-mail : education@nachi.org
NACHI phone 484-429-5466

Inspection Depot Education
gbeaumont@inspectiondepot.com

"Education is a journey, not a destination"

Originally Posted By: bkelly1
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Looks to be a poorly designed 3 phase panel. I have never seen the “guts” of a panel like this, fill us in.


Originally Posted By: jpope
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Interior panel of a condo. . .



Jeff Pope


JPI Home Inspection Service


“At JPI, we’ll help you look better”


(661) 212-0738

Originally Posted By: jhagarty
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Was the Condo formerly an Apartment?



Joseph Hagarty


HouseMaster / Main Line, PA
joseph.hagarty@housemaster.com
www.householdinspector.com

Phone: 610-399-9864
Fax : 610-399-9865

HouseMaster. Home inspections. Done right.

Originally Posted By: bbadger
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Pretty unusual to bring 3 phase right to the dwelling unit panel but there it is. icon_confused.gif


It's common to have a 3 phase service to a multi unit building but normally each unit only gets a single phase feeder.


--
Bob Badger
Electrical Construction & Maintenance
Moderator at ECN

Originally Posted By: jhagarty
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I have seen 3 phase panel configurations within Condos that were formerly Apartments.


The Conversion is made to Condo but the Electric Service and Distribution remains as a Single unit not divided among the Condos. Electric Service and Cost is handled thru the Monthly assessment fee.

The Building is the Unit, not the individual Condo.


--
Joseph Hagarty

HouseMaster / Main Line, PA
joseph.hagarty@housemaster.com
www.householdinspector.com

Phone: 610-399-9864
Fax : 610-399-9865

HouseMaster. Home inspections. Done right.

Originally Posted By: bbadger
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jhagarty wrote:
I have seen 3 phase panel configurations within Condos that were formerly Apartments.


I certainly believe you I just do not understand the reasoning for it.

Apartment or condo there would be no three phase loads so the added expense of 3 phase panels and the extra conductor to each unit serves only to raise the cost of the installation. ![icon_confused.gif](upload://qv5zppiN69qCk2Y6JzaFYhrff8S.gif)


--
Bob Badger
Electrical Construction & Maintenance
Moderator at ECN

Originally Posted By: Joey D’Adamo
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This might be a silly question but are there any panels specifically listed for use with 2 phases of a 3 phase power supply? The panel in my apartment is listed as 120/240, but is being fed with two legs of 120/208. Suppose the AHJ chose not to allow this (after all the panel is listed 120/240). Would it force this approach? Or are there panels specifically for this case?


Just a thought...


Originally Posted By: bbadger
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Joey D'Adamo wrote:
This might be a silly question but are there any panels specifically listed for use with 2 phases of a 3 phase power supply? The panel in my apartment is listed as 120/240, but is being fed with two legs of 120/208. Suppose the AHJ chose not to allow this (after all the panel is listed 120/240). Would it force this approach? Or are there panels specifically for this case?

Just a thought...


Not a silly question, the requirement is that the panel rating be the same or higher than the supply.

There are times in commercial work where we use 480/277 panels with 208/120 supplies.

Square D makes a panelboard called I-Line that is rated up to 600 volts, we use them for both 208 and 480 systems. ![icon_cool.gif](upload://oPnLkqdJc33Dyf2uA3TQwRkfhwd.gif)


--
Bob Badger
Electrical Construction & Maintenance
Moderator at ECN

Originally Posted By: jpope
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Sorry to post and run. I had a wedding to go to.


So that's what three phase looks like? I'm clueless when it comes to that type of set up.

This may well have been an apartment at one time based on the look and style of the building built in 1976.

Each unit had its own 90 amp service disconnect and meter in a common closet accessed only by DWP and maintenance personnel. One closet banked two floors of SE and meters.

![](upload://gQCchnVPrGWLUnHmNGoHlCOFJPY.jpeg)


--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738

Originally Posted By: rbennett
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Joey and Bob


One can not get 2 phase out of a 3 phase box by dropping off one phase

2 phase can be gotten by fancy wiring of transformers

Any help out there from some one that has a short explanation of this issue??


RLB


Originally Posted By: Joey D’Adamo
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rbennett wrote:
Joey and Bob

One can not get 2 phase out of a 3 phase box by dropping off one phase

2 phase can be gotten by fancy wiring of transformers

Any help out there from some one that has a short explanation of this issue??


RLB


I meant two legs of a three phase supply. That's how my apartment is powerered.


Originally Posted By: jtedesco
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Information on various electrical systems


http://www.tvss.net/train/config/pwr-x.htm#3w1p


--
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

www.nachi.org/tedescobook.htm

Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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The short answer is you won’t ever see 2 phase unless you work heavy industrial in an older area of the country. It is 2 phases 90 degrees out, like the cardinal points of a compass.


As far as I know this has to be genereated that way but you can do strange things with transformers so it may be possible to create it from the standard 3 phase distribution grid. I have never seen 2 phase personally.


I imagine they feed big buildings with 3 phases because it is what the utility has and there may be some slight efficiency issue. These days, with switcher power supplies and the triplin problem I bet that is not as attractive.


Originally Posted By: roconnor
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Joey D'Adamo wrote:
I meant two legs of a three phase supply.

It can be confusing, but that's what "single phase" really is ... Joe gave a good link that has the basics for various supply configurations.


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Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee

I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong

Originally Posted By: lkage
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jtedesco wrote:
Information on various electrical systems

http://www.tvss.net/train/config/pwr-x.htm#3w1p


Informative link. Thanks, Joe


--
"I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him."
Galileo Galilei