Spliced neutrals in panel

Is there an issue with having two neutrals being jumped to one lug in the panel? The panel has been replaced and the majority of the home runs are spliced in the cabinet with the neutrals being doubled up in the wire nut but with one jumper to the lug.

I do not like it also this just might be overloading them .
I would write it up as needing an electrician to Check the panel wiring . I expect you just might find other electrical concerns .

Nothing wrong with splicing the neutrals in a panel as long as it’s done properly. This is sometimes a fix for “double tapped” neutrals. Splices are permitted by the NEC.

The inspection was for the construction company who rehabbed the house. I doubt their electrician will see any issue. Check out how he pig tailed the disposal.

Thanks Robert

If each neutral is loaded to 60% then we could have and overload situation with two spliced neutrals .

I don’t see a pig tail, in that picture, but at least he got the neutral wire in the correct slot…nice paint job, too. :roll: :shock:

True, if the neutrals are on the same circuit then there is no issue, if they’re on different circuits on the same “phase” then you’re correct the current would become additive and could overload the pigtail. Two circuits on different “phases” would be OK but that creates a MWBC which may have its own additional requirements.

Yes there is a safety issue with this arrangement, safety for a person working on the circuit.

NEC (2017) references used. You indicated the house was rehabbed and State law requires Electricians to follow the most recent NEC regardless of what a builder or contractor wants. You can find these in previous NEC versions but they may be numbered slightly different.

The exception is for a paralleled conductor set which are two or more conductors carrying the same circuit load.

NEC 3110.10(H)

I would fully expect that these are branch circuits that do not meet any exceptions listed here.

I don’t see how parallel conductors are relevant to this installation. For one they are required to be #1/0 or larger. What code violations do you see when two neutrals are pigtailed to one conductor that’s landed on the neutral bar?

Did you bother to read both NEC references? 310.10(H) was used to explain, along with my comments, the 408.41 exception and that is all it was there for. NEC 408.41 main wording is self explanatory why this condition is unacceptable.

Actually I did, your first reference 310.10(H) is for parallel conductors which these are not so that doesn’t apply. The second 408.41 is for one grounded conductor per hole in the neutral bus which may be the reason why the splice was installed in the first place.

I am well aware that 310.10(H) does not apply and stated as such in my first post. Again if you read my response I explained why I added that.

If you believe that this condition is acceptable then please explain why you believe double-tapping a wire nut is any different and safer than double tapping a termination bar in the panel and why NEC 408.41 does not apply to this condition? The purpose of 408.41 is for safety reasons and not functional reasons as the manufacturer can rate their termination bars for more than one conductor under a tie point.

So we agree that parallel conductors has nothing to do with the OP. :slight_smile:

Regarding 408.41, you can only install a single neutral in a single hole of the neutral bar unless it meets the exception. Whether it’s less safe or not you are permitted by the NEC to splice the neutrals with a wirenut. If you still believe that I’m incorrect please provide a code reference.

Answers and questions in blue above. You come to this board to provide your purported technical expertise regarding the NEC and electrical matters. Is there a reason you choose not to do this for this situation?

I reading your response to my post about splicing the neutral conductors I will say only that you’re wrong and you have yet to provide any code reference that says that neutral conductors cannot be spliced as shown in the photo of the OP. I think that we may agree that there may be caveats in doing so but they are permitted by the NEC.

My code reference {312.8} is about it being permissible to make a splice in a panel, nothing more.

And for the record I’ve never “purported technical expertise” I’m just here helping out those who may benefit from my 30+ years in the electrical industry.

You do a fine job of side stepping questions. Answers in blue above.

What’s the question?

What part of what I said, “Splices are permitted by the NEC” and the code reference for splices in a panel do you not get? There’s the quoted sentence and the code reference right after it. Seems pretty obvious to me and probably anyone else who read it what it meant, that splices are permitted in panels.

408.41 does not apply to splicing the neutral in the panel with a wirenut.

I’m still waiting for my code reference as to where it states that the neutral cannot be spliced.

You can infer anything you like from my resume it is what it is.

it is a single conductor in the hole.it is not being shared with another neutral or a grounding conductor.

As for someones resume, I can say that he is qualified to give a knowledgeable answer on the NEC questions.

The issue arises when a code article is parsed instead of reading the words as a sentence. The code does not want multiple neutrals in a hole. When they have been spliced they are now a single neutral.