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I was waiting for someone from your chapter to say just that. I actually didn’t expect it to come from you. I would think that if it was a NACHI course, it should be NACHI deciding who will teach it. If it is not taught by the person who wrote it perhaps NACHI might need to make sure that another party is competent to teach it or cannot deliver it in away that people can pass the exam. If they are not, it could be a bad reflection on NACHI. It seems none of these decisions are up to a chapter.
Name a course that someone other than the author taught without at least being asked if it was OK with them. Perhaps the other party might need a little training.
Try doing one of Gerry’s courses (that he wrote for NACHI), or try Joe Farsetta’s courses (that he wrote for NACHI), without at least asking them if if it was OK with them. It is common courtesy and you owe that to Will. Knowing will he would probably say sure, go for it.
Common courtesy is something clearly missing among some people in that “chapter”. Time to step up or step out.
You have to concern yourself with the Wisconsin chapter and NOT ours?
You don’t know the facts about this event and yet your assuming things…
Please check with Mr Decker and leave this topic alone. I do NOT
question what you do in your state. I am sure we all want education events in our areas to be available to all members of NACHI so lets stick to helping and not waste our efforts towards creating issues.
Our instructor is well qualified and given the OK to Teach the course.
I though that Mr. Decker has said he gave these course to NACHI? If this is true then I and others believe that anyone has the right to teach them. If there is a problem then why has Mr. Decker not saying anything? Mr. Nice are you now in charge of want go on in other state and chapters. Are you now the one that speak of Mr. Decker? I believe that if there is a problem Mr. Decker will speak up.
Since one of your own chapter officers advised me that ***"Will Decker is going to teach his course in Wisconsin “over my dead body” ***I think it takes a lot of chutzpah to tell me to concern myself with our chapter.
That same director then proposed a set of standards for instructors that was specifically designed to prevent Mr. Decker from teaching his own course (even when NACHI approved of him teaching it).
So it is incredibly laughable that anyone from your “chapter” would suggest that I mind my own business.
I did check with Mr. Decker and at the time I posted the question he had not been consulted or extended the courtesy or even asked if he would teach it. So if one of your directors suggested to you that they had consulted him, someone is lying (and I’m betting it’s not Will).
Even when our chapter offers a course that has been approved in IL we consulted the nearest IL chapter (Chicago) to make sure that we are not taking away from an event they are having. We did so with the structure course and we have done so with the upcoming Thermal Imaging course.
If there is a chance that it may have an effect on someone else’s region, we will always offer the courtesy. Just because there is not rule to consult the creator of a course or another chapter it does not change the fact that simple common courtesy goes a long way and the absence of it breeds contempt.
Even when your chapter scheduled an event smack dab between Chicago and Wisconsin, your chapter said nothing to either (and I already checked with Chicago). Your chapter states:
“Presently, our focus is on providing educational opportunities for those Home Inspectors residing in areas which may not have an easy access to a locally organized Chapter, or for those residing in the more rural regions of the State.”
***Since you are soliciting Wisconsin inspectors, consulting us would not only have been a courtesy to us, it would have helped you as well. Most area inspectors are also members of the Wisconsin Association of Home Inspectors (WAHI). WAHI is holding its big Fall 2 day Seminar the weekend after your Zion event.
Had anyone from your chapter asked, I would have recommenced a different date, since you’ll have a hard time getting Wisconsin inspectors to attend events 2 weekends in a row (and many are committed to the WAHI seminar. Since NACHI is now an affiliate member of WAHI we will have a booth at that event.
I am not going to assume that you personally were unaware that there was not so much as a peep to Will or even that you know that the WI chapter had not even been asked for support for the Zion event (I wonder why).
There is a good chance that you have just been misinformed and you might want to take that up with your fellow directors.
Sure Ken, and apparently according to Russ Meyers, everyone has the right to teach it BUT Will Decker.
If you want to stand on principle to excuse your lack of courtesy, so be it. You don’t need Will to complain about your lack of courtesy. He shouldn’t have to. Just don’t expect anyone else to offer you any.
Thats the problem with developing course for NACHI…once it is developed it is then owned by NACHI and they have the rights to it unless you CHARGE for your services and retain the rights to the produced information.
Now if someone is ON PURPOSE keeping Mr. Decker from presenting his own material he created then thats just wrong but if others would like to teach it and feel comfortable with it nothing can stop them because it was issued for public use at no charge.
I guess that your post was just delayed. (And you thought it was being censored :D).
The last I heard NACHI had not made any rules about who teaches NACHI owned course (regardless of who wrote them). There are a lot of things that there are specific rules about.
I cannot think of a single other chapter that would decide to use an instructor other than the one who wrote it without even (as a courtesy) asking him to either do it or offer his blessing.
Knowing Will Decker and all he has done (and continues to do) for other inspectors, he would probably be to first guy to say “do it”. Since I know he didn’t and he is no the type to make a case for it, I am happy to be the guy to say something.
An officer of that chapter DID try to prevent Will from teaching that course before (ON PURPOSE) and since Will wasn’t asked this time, it is a pretty reasonable conclusion that it is being done ON PURPOSE again. Since Will has yet to charge to teach the course and has traveled plenty far to do it, that is another pretty clear indicator.
Can anybody stop them from doing that? PROBABLY NOT.
Does that make it right? ABSOLUTELY NOT.
Does it also demonstrate a lack of common courtesy? YOU BET.
Should they be ashamed of themselves? YES, YES, YES!
Should it prevent anyone from attending the course? OF COURSE NOT.
It’s just too bad that that chapter has director no no (published) members to vote them out. At some point I am sure that some rules for these unincorporated, unchartered chapters will be instituted to help keep out theriffraff.
(William J. Decker, CMI, IL. Lic. 450.002240)
I wrote these courses (and am writing more) for the benefit of NACHI members. I have done so because (at least in my area) there are many “state C.E. vendors” who put on childishly easy state CE courses, and charge a pretty big amount to HIs to take them. Of all these that I have attended, I have rarely learned anything that I did not already know. I wanted there to be challanging courses that cost less than the existing ones.
I put a NACHI copyright on these courses (at least, the Power Points) so that anyone in NACHI could use them. They are freely available to any NACHI member at www.nachi.org/presentations for download.
There are people within NACHI (Paul A., Gerry B., Joe F., etc) who write courses and charge for them. My point to these has always been (correctly so) that in state approved CE course states, people rarely attend courses that do not provide state approved CE credit. These people, eventually, learned from this and now provide their courses for state CE approval. I, myself, attend these courses, even if they are somewhat high priced, because I believe that the material and the insructors are worthe the extra money. If others don’t agree, that is their decision.
When a course by one of these nationally known NACHI instructors was given, recently, even though it was put on by the Chicago Chapter (who provided the venue and did all the leg work), the so-called “state” chapter took all the revenue. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. The lesson to be learned? It would be nice if the Illinois state chapter contributed as well as it takes. Given its top leadership, this is unlikely.
I have taught these courses in 4 states (three of which, for state approved CE) and at the Toronto national convention. I am happy to teach and do so at no charge for my own reasons. If others want to follow my example, great. If they do not, that is their choice and I do not hold anything against them.
The Chicago Chapter is now working on writing other courses (through other authors besides myself). This is great and I hope that other Chapters will follow suit.
I was not asked about teaching the course downstate, nor was I asked if another could teach it. I have no problem with others teaching it, especially the one who is teaching it this time. But it would have been nice to have been asked. Common courtesy. I also understand that courtesy and decency and honesty are in short supply in the top leadership of the state chapter (BTW: This does NOT include Pat Bolliger. Pat is a hard working stand up guy and not involved with this situation). They want to take and not contribute and, as is now evident, not even seem to want to work with other Chapters. This is not the state chapter’s problem, only that of its top leadership.
I have been advised by NACHI leadership that I should not put a NACHI copyright on my course material. It will still be licensed through NACHI’s state CE license, but will not “Belong” to NACHI. It will still be available to any NACHI member who wants it, but it will not be able to be co-opted by those who just want to prosper on the work of others, as is the case here.
Problem solved. Sorry to have taken up so much time.
Unfortunately since day 1, that chapter lists directors but has apparently has no members, has no chapter meetings, etc. Does that make it a chapter? If one would be expected to follow at least some the instructions and suggestions on forming a chapter outlined here http://www.nachi.org/form.htm one would be inclined to say no.
Obviously it takes time to get a chapter up and running and to get people to join, but it doesn’t appear that there is really a way to join that “chapter”.
That then would beg the question, What is it really? Is it a vendor using the cover of a chapter name? Without any members, chapter leaders have no one to hold them accountable for good educational programs, what happens to the money, etc.
I understand the concept of a “state chapter” since I am President of ours. We have members throughout the state and we consulted with the only remaining listed chapter in the state before moving forward. Since there were no other chapters in our state (with members or meetings) a state chapter works. Otherwise we would have stuck with our Greater Milwaukee chapter. As our numbers grow we will be offering events in other parts of the state based on the demand for such events.
There just seem to be way to many elements of what a chapter is that appear to be missing in that chapter that it really begs the question whether it should even be calling itself one. Since the rules around the forming of chapters are pretty loose, that might be a question to be best answered on another day. One can only hope that NACHI leadership takes note of it and looks at ways to tighten the chapter ship just a bit.