Sub-Panel - A new one for me

I’ve never seen a sub-panel, or any other panel, with only one hot bus bar that was energized, among the other problems. It had 1ea 12 gauge wire feeding it from the house.

So, is this legitimate? Can a sub-panel have just one energized hot bus bar.

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So you have a 12 gauge feeder serving two 20 amp circuit breakers on one leg of service. Is that feeder coming out of the light switch?

It looks wrong and dangerous to me in many ways. First off, its unbalanced which is hazardous. And that 12 gauge feeder can see up to 40 amps which is a fire hazard. I’m sure its breaking many other rules that one of our sparky’s can chime in on.

Edit: I forgot about the OCPD for the feeder which is hopefully a 20 amp breaker. That negates what I said about the amperage. I still feel there are issues with this setup.

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Looks like just a 120V panel which isn’t inherently a problem… definitely limits what you do from it.

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That’s kind of what I was thinking, yes it’s a 120 volt panel by default.

I just have never seen a 120 volt panel, and since it’s designed for 240 volts, my question being, is it legit as a 120 volt panel?

And yes there are a flurry of other problems that make it unsafe as it is that I called out in the report.

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Yes, it was being fed from the panel and it’s on a 20 amp breaker from the distribution panel. And yes, it’s basically FUBAR. :grinning:

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Yeah, for sure. Sometimes people will split the feeder to energize both bus bars. Not an issue in my book, in this situation. Sounds like the feeder is protected properly back at the house. Even has its own EGC feeder. What it looks to be missing though is enclosure bonding and a GES (assuming a detached structure). And the double neutral, and somehow mud wasps are getting in of course.

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Yea, all those problems and a knockout that was missing.

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Wouldn’t we have to know how long each of the branch circuits are to determine if its acceptable? I would love to see the voltage drop reading at the end of the two branch circuits coming out of that panel :wink:

As far as a home inspection, I probably wouldn’t concern myself with that. Maybe if I plugged in my tester and the lights were dim or something, I would report on it. But voltage drop would be an issue even if the panel was fed with two hots.

This is just simply a 120v panel. It is not possible to get 240v from it. That said, I could see someone creative making the neutral feeder the other hot feeder and making the EGC the neutral feeder, thereby getting the 240 volts.

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Ok. Maybe my thoughts are incorrect since you and @mfellman feel this is a normal setup. I didn’t realize this was allowed, good to know. I won’t scare my client the first time I see this :+1:

I guess I’m thinking of this setup as two 12 gauge extension cords plugged into a 12 gauge extension cord. Length is important in this case as well as generally speaking in residential wiring but I understand determining run lengths and voltage drop is outside the SOP.

Is it ideal? Probably not. The new owner may find out it doesn’t suit them for their needs.

Kevin didn’t give us the lengths so it is hard to know for sure, but it looks like it is in town so the length probably isn’t too great.

Here is an interesting chart from Cerrowire…

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Voltage drop compensation for this installation is not required by the NEC so it’s optional if someone wants to consider it.

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Another one in the same vein that sometimes gets me is a 240V sub with no neutral. IIRC, I’ve seen that on older electric furnaces. I think I’ve also seen one for an outdoor A/C.

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I agree, the deeper you dig the more you will find.

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No doubt, although the distribution panel in the house looked really good and was evidently was done by a pro.

WHat I don’t get is if someone is willing to take the time and effort to run a 12 gauge wire, why not just run an 6 gauge 240 volt wire and do it right?

For nothing more than considering you might need it sometime in the future…

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I’ve run across this a few times with standard outlets in a garage, etc. Homeowner wanted to power his welder, etc. and was too lazy to go get the correct outlet. All three lights come up on an outlet tester… the first time I saw it I thought I had won a jackpot :slight_smile: Super-dangerous and pretty sure 120V things plugged into it are at risk of burning/blowing up.

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I’ve run across this twice in my now 21 years doing inspections. Scary stuff to find for sure, but glad I found it before my client did.

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Yes.

It is not hazardous.

There’s no way to know that based on the photo or information provided.

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Thanks George :+1: I spouted off incorrectly once again…I ended up conceding down the line of posts. Including not taking into account the OCPD on the feeder :frowning:

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That is one reason why we always mention the “creativity” of previous occupants who always seem to get more creative the longer they live in a place. That and we will usually ask what their intended purpose of the detached structure is going to be. She-shed? Good. Welding/Machine shop? Bad. :slight_smile:

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