Surface cracks

Originally Posted By: tvargas
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http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/more/Picture%20003.jpg ]


[ Image: http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/more/Picture%20004.jpg ]


[ Image: http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/more/Picture%20006.jpg ]


Originally Posted By: phinsperger
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Tony,


They look like cut control joints to me. Was the vinyl ripped up to show this r was the patch work done after removing the vinyl?


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Originally Posted By: kmcmahon
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Those are control joints and are supposed to be there. They usually fill them with caulk or some form of pliable material to keep dirt out but allow for the expansion and contraction of the slab (instead of cracking where the slab wants to). Usually every 15-20’ there is one. If the floor were tiled, the joint between two tiles over the joint is usually caulked instead of grouted



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Originally Posted By: tvargas
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Thanks Guys , That is what they look like at first to me but I was not


sure because I have read about them but never really seen them. Also


yes paul the vinyl was ripped out as you see before I arrived , what


are you getting at? . I do appreciate your feedback , great job guys .


Tony Vargas


Originally Posted By: jane molina
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Kevin, so these cracks are put there on purpose you say, and filled


with caulk to allow for expansion and contraction.


Jane


Originally Posted By: phinsperger
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Yes the joints are put there on purpose. If you look closely at the ends, you will notice that they do not go all the way to the wall. They stop a few inches from the wall. This is because these ones have been cut after the concrete has set up using a circular blade. Thus they can not get right up to the wall - no big deal really. Some joints are created while the concrete is being poured and would typically go right to the end.


Here is more information on concrete control joints


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Paul Hinsperger
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Originally Posted By: Guest
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These cracks were grouted, probably with latex modified grout for some flexibilty so that the control joint doesn’t telegraph through the Vinyl flooring.


They probably cut up the flooring because the joint telegraphed through anyway. A better installation would have been a layer of 50# felt or similar product beneath the flooring which would have prevented the problem.
The flooring functions best when it's edge glued only and allowed to "float" over the majority of the floor.


Originally Posted By: psabados
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Chad


Most of the standard builder grade, vinyl floor coverings need to be totally glued to the sub flooring material. Not all grades of sheet vinyl are perimeter adhered. If you look closely at the pics you can see the trowel marks on the concrete and that some of the sheet vinyl backing is still left in place. Armstong used to call that type of material a hydrocord backing. In the older days when true linoleum was being made it had a felt type backing and in some cases the backing was also reinforced with a jute string weave.

Also, felt should not be used when installing a perimeter glue down material. The felt will not hold and the memory set within the flooring will have a tendency to shrink ripping up the felt. Also felt dyes will bleed through some materials and show dark splotches on the surface, showing has a yellow to brownish discoloration.

Each mfg. will have special instructions for installation. Any deviations will void the warranty.

Paul


Originally Posted By: Guest
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Hi Paul,


Thanks for the info.. I'm not an expert on on sheet flooring goods and was commenting from personal experience. I've never installed "builder grade" of anything in my life, instead I've opted for the best I can afford at all times. Every product I've ever used has come with directions for complete glue and perimeter glue with perimeter gluing being listed as preferred.

I saw the trowel marks near the control joint. The physical attachment of the flooring directly to each side of the joint (in my mind) probably caused the flooring failure as all the movement in the sheet goods was isolated to 1/4 inch wide strip, rather than letting the slab move independently of the floor covering.

As for felt, I can see how it's possible for it to bleed through; it's never happened to me though.

"There are proprietary underlayments availble to install beneath vinyl floors to prevent telegraphing of imperfections." I guess that's what I should have said.

I've installed something less than 2,000 yards of sheet product which qualifies me as a beginner. So I'm prepared to learn.


Originally Posted By: ccoombs
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I?m not sure these pictures show control joints. Typically control joints are installed early in the process. And before the concrete fully cures and before walls are installed. The pictures show a wider section filled in and at the end it looks like a hairline crack. My first thought would be a straight hair line crack that was made wider with a grinder for repair. A straight hair line crack is a sign of major problems in post-tension foundations. I would look for a PT stamp in the garage and if it is a PT slab, have them get an engineer on the job ASAP.


Curtis


Originally Posted By: Larry L Leesch
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I agree with Curtis on this one. The joints would have been installed at slab pour, these are saw cuts. If it is a PT slab, it has problems.


Originally Posted By: ccoombs
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A lot of control joints are saw cuts in the slab. They are cut prior to plating. However, the ends of these don’t look like saw cuts. I would be very concerned about this foundation.