All very nice, but there is no guidance in your chart that indicates WHEN to test. The reasons you state above do indicate a justification for sampling. However, your chart is incomplete with regard to this. You simply state in “condition” that there is no visible signs of mold not conditions conducive to its growth. There is nothing to indicate that someone is complaning of health issues, which in this case, sampling would help to rule mold OUT, rather than rule IN.
And, in order to effectively perform testing where the HVAC system may be suspect, swab sampling is something I would also perform, at supply registers, and at the connection point of the return register to the HVAC system.
But, hey… that’s just me;-)
I stand by my assertion that the chart is somehow innaccurate or incomplete in this regard. The suggestion is to fill the gap and explain it better.
Thell me what hypothesis you developed while discussing this whith your client.
After seeing this condition,dd you recommend air samples, including two exterior baseline samples and two interior samples?
For that matter, when performing a mold investivation, what hypothesis would one develop when justifying a need to perform air sample testing where no signs conducive to mold growth exists, nor where there are visible signs of mold growth. What would justify two exterior air samples and two indoor air samples?
What would the hypothesis be based on?
The question was when to test for hidden mold growth. The reply I received was that it was based on a hypothesis. When I asked what the hypothesis was based on, like things such as a burst pipe in a wall, ice damming, leaking roof, I received no quantifiable reply.
So, I put it out to all of you.
As I have stated, if the client thinks there is hidden mold, and you have recommended testing where there is nothing that indicates that mold (even hidden mold) exists, then the exercise is to rule mold OUT. It does justify the purpose of the testing.
Well the house was flooded because the realtor turned the water on a few days ago and did not look inside the house to see if water was leaking anywhere…like from the 1/4 in. line to the icemaker which was wide open–:)))…and not connected to the missing refrigerator-freezer.
I told them to get three estimates from licensed contractors to rip the sheetrock out and install new, and do what ever else they want to suit their needs and expectations, and if they want to blow some money have it tested for mold, have the men with white suits come wearing Moon Gear, do what ever they want, I could care less—::))) I just reported the moisture damage 4 feet up the walls in the entire house. The mold grew fast in the closed closet not getting any air.
Pretty simple really…I did not tell them to get a mold test, I didn’t want them to think I was an idiot.
I’m not allergic to mold, it does not bother me one bit, when I was a contractor I would tear houses apart that looked like the picture above without even a dust mask.
Some people are allergic to it, some ain’t…I am allergic to Bee’s…not mold.
So you not knowing the background of your clients health gave them a remediation protocol without even knowing it? Just have a contractor remove the drywall? Really…
How about the HVAC system and the chances of the mold being spread.
Dale, think of it as being bees stinging you. You are allergic to those right. If I walked into this home, I would personally be suffering due to my allergies to molds.
Blowing money on testing is a little far. Tell that to one of my clients that was told the same thing by her inspector with her current home which had mold all over the basement. Now she is in the hospital almost weekly with sever bacterial infections and MS thats flaring up due to her exposure to this lovely mold located in her bathroom behind the tile. If her last inspector would have just moved on piece of insulation and maybe used a moisture meter he wouldn’t be out of business and money.
Caoimhín P. Connell Forensic Industrial Hygienist www.forensic-applications.com…does not post here anymore, he is tired of trying to talk sense into folks with the mentalities of a monkey----:D—:D—
I am not a “NACHI Certified Mold inspector”, nor do I want to be (because there is no such thing in the real world), and I do not want to rip people off, I tell them if they want someone to really identify a problem and give a solution to the problem in writing, call a licensed Industrial Hygienist, nobody else----
I tell them if the person doing testing is not an Industrial Hygienist they will be ripped off…simple as that…:shock:
A “Certified Mold Inspector” better be an Industrial Hygienist or nobody has to worry about me being in court, but they better worry about themselves being in court, with someone like Caoimhín P. Connell making a fool of them in cross examination regarding protocols, testing procedures, etc.----:shock:
That’s why I wrote the course. You can’t learn anything from a chart. It’s just a chart! I’m almost complete with editing a 32,000 word document, which will be available with the online video course (mold inspection training online video course on nachi.tv). Soon.
That’s a large document with full explanation of how-to, why, when, and where. 32,000 words don’t fit on a chart.
If I were performing a home inspection - That’s what I would report.
If I were performing a mold inspection - That’s different. A mold report is a legal document. A mold report should not make recommendations that are not borned out of professional examination, scientific biological sampling, and laboratory analysis. A mold inspector has to sample.
When I was a certified lead hazard risk assessor, I did not write reports in my opinion. I didn’t say anything like “That’s obviously lead-based paint. Remediation is recommended.” I had to sample.
Home inspectors can say whatever. Mold inspectors should never say, “That looks like mold” without sampling.
I’ve read the work by Caoimhin and in one of his documents he refers to Threshold Limit Values that no longer exist and research that has been redacted.
You have stated that you have no mold training. I do have mold training.
We fenced last evening and you and Nick challenged me to produce documentation which shows that the chart contradicts both EPA and CDC guidelnes. I did just that.
I am sorry, but air sampling MAY or MAY NOT reveal hidden mold problems.
As to this comment by another:
Sorry to say, but the medical facts simply do not bear out these claims. For the toxins to have severe effects, and possibly cause death, the levels of mold would need to be extremely high and te person would beed to be extremely immunocomprimised, or the mold would need to be eaten in large quantities.
The more data that comes out on the subject, the more it seems that many claims are simply unfounded.
Oh dear. I would never hire a IH to perform a mold inspection. They have no business doing that. And I work with IHs at National Jewish Hospital in Denver. We are working together in a mold research project involving carpet sampling with HUD and EPA.
Investigating hidden mold and moisture can be very difficult. It requires a professional with experience in inspecting for water and moisture problems. Being a certified home inspector is the best qualification to perform a thorough mold inspection. Certified home inspectors are trained to locate and identify moisture intrusion, condensation, and humidity problems. Certified home inspectors are trained in building science, which is needed to investigate moisture intrusion and conditions conducive to mold growth.
Yet over and over this type of anecdotal story is used to “prove” mold(or any other bad thing) is the culprit.
It’s misguided to use these stories in an attempt to sell a service.
No one here is qualified to do anything beyond taking samples at the behest of the client.
Although mold is frequently found in damp buildings, it is not the only potential contaminant — biological contaminants other than mold, and non-biological contaminants are often present and may also cause health effects. Damp buildings may attract rodents and other pests. Damp or wet building components and furnishings may release chemicals indoors.
Potential contaminants in damp or wet buildings include bacteria, dust mites, cockroaches and other pests, as well as chemicals emitted by damp building materials and furnishings.
Symptoms and adverse health effects may be associated with exposure to mold. But those symptoms and health problems may be caused by other exposures or conditions unrelated to mold growth. Therefore, it is important not to assume that, whenever symptoms occur, mold is the cause.
Whether you choose to believe all of Mr. Connell’s work, and take into account that his bent comes from being an inductrial hygenist, his opinions are generally held to be factual. They are supported by many nationally and internationally recognized organizations, and his pedigree allows him to serve as a key player on the ASTM committee on indoor mold protocols
Here’s an interesting read. There are many references contained in it, and if nothing else, we should be concerned with:
conformance with recognized and accepted sampling protocols
be able to scientifically justify the need for sampling
conduct thorough visual assessments prior to recommending sampling
:roll: Hmmm hours of litigation would prove you wrong. Maybe I’ll be able to release some documents that may just make you think.
Joe the levels do not need to be high for a person with a suppressed immune system and a direct allergy to mold to become affected by its presence.
For the record I work hand in hand with an Industrial Hygienist almost on every case. So you can forget about using that BS statement. The people ripping people off are the remediators out here botching jobs.
