I haven’t done or suggested that at all. When I’m hired to do X, Y, and Z, that’s exactly what I’m going to do. If I’m asked my opinion on what needs done, I’ll offer it. I fully support a customer’s right to want something dumb or unnecessary done. Certainly you realize also that “correcting” everything on a HI’s list, real or imagined, really smooths out the sale process too, which has value to the seller. It’s not up to me to either analyze or discuss the seller’s motivation for wanting something particular done. If they want me to do it, that’s what I do.
Bump. before the argument continues and changes the thread…
Beats me, but the one in the pic is not old at all.
I like your answer
Sq D HOM is another.
I have to also side with Marc on this one. I also must say, he is generally much calmer and more diplomatic than me. I tend to “lay it on the line” much more quickly.
So jumping all over Marc on this is quite uncalled for.
The OP is ripping this “so called” electrician over something so trivial as a breaker double tap, which I know the H-I industry is a criminal offense. Thing is he came in with gun blazing and happens to be wrong.
I think these are called out so much mainly because they are so easy to identify. Thing is they do not always need pointing out.
I wonder if they have electricity in Romania to have this double-tap problem?
Mark can you explain the difference in the internal guts of the breaker that makes it allowable? for educational purposes of course.
I knew that double taps are allowed for some breakers.
I called out a double tap Friday on a Federal Pacific panel and educated them on the panel itself. I also suggested if they didn’t want to change out the panel to put a smoke detector right above it. It was the cleanest looking panel I have seen in as while, The panel looked like it was brand new although i know better.
I agree with the original post. I would call it out for two reason. First of all no one can tell from that picture if it meets code. Remember code is the minimum standard. Second of all it is poor workmanship. Who ever installed it that way was lazy.
I called this out two days ago. What do you think? Wrong call?
Those breakers are designed for two conductors. . .
However, the conductors should be the same size.
Tell me why. Seriously.
There are some who would call out a splice in the panel. They would be wrong as well.
It is not the internals that allow this. It is the way the termination is designed and tested.
For reference for current breaker styles look on the side of the breakers on the shelves in the stores. You can see the pictogram to see if 2 wires are allowed and the size ranges.
Breakers that are only designed for one wire may only tighten down on one wire allowing the other to possibly arc.
I call them (double taps) out as a concern, and state that a re-configuration may be needed, but to consult with a licensed electrician.
On to another subject near and dear to me (I’m about to stick my finger in the fan here)…
As to Fed Pacific and Stab-Lock… to the electricians; wasnt it the 2-pole breakers that actually failed and not the single-pole units?
The reason I ask this is that here in NY, the NY Board of Fire Underwriters do NOT flag these panels. Since the Board is actually a consortium of insurance companies who wind up PAYING claims, I find it fascinating that the rarely mention these panels.
Some inspectors automatically call them out for replacement, but the facts are that testing was inconclusive and that no recall was ever issued. While no one denies that some panels and breakers were problematic, the fact remains that thousands upon thousands of FED Pacific panels with Stab-Locks exist in the field.
So, sparkies… I’m playing devil’s advocate here… Your HI politically incorrect opinions, please;-)
Feel free to call out whatever brands or styles you want. It makes me $$$. That said, the only thing I can say for sure about FPE’s is that I have measured for myself that they don’t always trip as soon as more typical breakers of their day did. Single pole, double pole, and otherwise. I have not measured one out of spec or one that didn’t trip, but still remarkably different than other brands. I guess my response is basically non-responsive, isn’t it?
Thing is the NYBFU is an AHJ, not a H-I or otherwise. They have no grounds to call out an otherwise (technically) perfectly legal FPE panel.
That is your, and my, job. And I do it all the time as do you guys.
This advice goes for old-timers as well as newbies. Not picking on anyone. Spend a little time cruising Home Depot(or Lowes). When I go into a supply house, they only have out new products for impulse buying. In the big box stores the items are fully out for reading and keeping up to date.
Besides, where is Harry-Home-Owner going to get his knowledge for DIY electrical.
For an HI to suggest replacement of a panel, based simply on its brand name, is irresponsible IMHO.
Square D allows double tap, but not two different size conductors. The larger one will be tight, but the smaller will be loose, not to mention the different amp ratings. BTW, this is different from the original post.
As per Carson Dunlop Electrical home inspection training:
’As inspectors, you should always note double taps. Explain that some authorities will accept this situation, but suggest they have it checked out.'
I think Tim’s call was within the scope of a home inspector. Remember we are generalist’s, its impossible to be a specialist in every trade to the detail of a journeyman with experience.