Originally Posted By: Brian A. Goodman This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Hi Joe. For some reason I never find all of the stuff in these things, but I’ll take a run at it anyway.
I see a 200 amp main for a 40 circuit GE panel.
I see what is almost certainly an aluminum neutral, which someone bothered to install with contact paste (I'd be checking the hots next).
I'm pretty sure I see more than one neutral per terminal on the neutral bars, as well as neutrals and grounds mixed in the same terminals (neither is allowed).
I see that the enclosure is bonded.
I see that the wiring is not a God-awful mess.
I can't be certain, but it appears that the main is tripped. If so you have to wonder why.
I should probably be saying "grounded conductor" instead neutral, but I think that term confuses a lot of people, so I don't use it much.
Originally Posted By: Kenneth Hartman This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I can’t tell for sure but It looks like the didn’t leave a service loop. as far as the alluminum grounded conductor that is the grounding conductor from the service drop and the black stuff is monkey grease which is required for aluminum wires (anti-oxidation compound) from what I can tell from the picture the ground and the nuetrals are correct the grounds appear to be on a separate bus on the bottom and the nuetrals are on a separate bus on the top and your allowed to have more then one nuetral wire under a lug as long as it is rated for it (would be the same as a double tap) but all and all it don’t look to bad I can’t see the breakers but one thing I would check is to make sure that there is not anymore than a 1/8" of conductor exposed where it enters the breaker lug.
Originally Posted By: Brian A. Goodman This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
[quote=“jmichalski”]
just out of curiosity, how did you id the GE 40 circuit panel from the photo?
Just right of the main breaker is the catalog number of the panel (turned sideways); TM4020. I recognize that as a GE number for a 40 circuit 200 amp. I could have pegged it as GE just from seeing the main breaker, it's unique.
Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Ken that exception may be important in some industrial sites but I doubt you are going to see parallel 1/0 in a residential panel (the smallest size 300.4 allows in general wiring).
Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
David, you should be looking at the panel label. It will say if the grounding bus is rated for multiple “grounding” conductors. The neutrals should always be on separate lugs.
The same is true of the breakers but the labelling will be on the breaker itself. That is probably “invasive” since you usually can’t see the label without removing the breaker. A general rule. If this is a square washer with wires on both sides it is OK for 2.
Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Quote:
When's the last time anyone saw installation paperwork for service panels?
Most of the basic instructions are located on the label inside the panel. They tell the HI just about anything pertinent we would need to know. Only problem with them is that often they are blocked by wiring. I read them whenever they are visible if I have any specific panel questions.
I believe FPE allows double lugging of neutrals.   
Originally Posted By: roconnor This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Brian A. Goodman wrote:
I'm pretty sure I see more than one neutral per terminal on the neutral bars, as well as neutrals and grounds mixed in the same terminals (neither is allowed).
I'm not so sure ... might be an over/under bar. But I agree with one (1) neutral per terminal.
Brian A. Goodman wrote:
I can't be certain, but it appears that the main is tripped. If so you have to wonder why.
Might be an incorrectly installed main breaker, with down as "on" ... cant tell from the pic.
Brian A. Goodman wrote:
I should probably be saying "grounded conductor" instead neutral, but I think that term confuses a lot of people, so I don't use it much.
I agree ... I use the term "neutral" all the time ...... even though technically it is not "neutral" on a 120V circuit.
Scott Warga wrote:
You can not double neutrals under a single lug. 
I agree ... no double lug neutrals, except for large feeders with "parallel conductors" for the same circuit/feeder with wires larger than 1/0 in size. Actually that requirement for separate neutrals in the UL 67 panelboard standard goes back a lot further than 1993. It was often ignored (even by Mfr like FPE Blaine ... go figure with that ... lol) ... so it was added to the 2002 NEC to make it crystal clear that branch circuit neutrals are not to be double lugged.
Just my opinion and 2-nickles ...
-- Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee
I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong
Originally Posted By: Brian A. Goodman This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
[quote=“roconnor”]
Might be an incorrectly installed main breaker, with down as "on" ... cant tell from the pic.
I can see "off" imprinted below the handle. You'd have to work pretty hard to reverse one of those anyway, with the lugs only on one end and installed with an impact driver (phillips head, of all things). Taking the lugs out of one of those is tough.
