240 volt outlet measured 213 volts / Not 3-phase

[rmeier2 (Robert Meier)]

@dhorton2

No, we are not required to place anything inside the panel

Got it. 99% of the time simply reporting the system voltage as 120/240 you’ll get it right. There’s always that 1% chance that it is not 120/240.

[dfreund (David Freund)]

@rmeier2

which would mean that it did not have a separate utility meter.

It has a separate meter.

@rmeier2

Just my 2 cents but I wouldn’t be writing this up unless I first know that the system voltage is actually 120/240 volts

I imagine you’re able to tell from the markings on the meter? Shot in the dark here…does 3W mean 3-phase Wye or the meter is pulling 3 watts?

[dfreund (David Freund)]

@bcawhern1

So, I suspect the dryer will operate just fine

Thanks Brian, good to know

@bcawhern1

Did you follow thru with the defect narrative while regarding Robert’s last post?

Negative…After sleeping on it, I feel that since I read 122v on each leg, its most likely not a defect.

@bcawhern1

I am curious why this customer focused on the dryer voltage

They didn’t…they just wanted to know if it was hooked up and working properly. As I mentioned before, a non-contact tester will not assure me if it is working properly. What will assure me is if I pull out my MM or wiggy. My MM sits on top of my electrical tool bag so it is what I grabbed as this was a last minute request and hence reading 213v. Had I grabbed my wiggy, I probably would have been happy with the reading and we wouldn’t be having this conversation right now

[rmeier2 (Robert Meier)]

@dfreund

I imagine you’re able to tell from the markings on the meter? Shot in the dark here…does 3W mean 3-phase Wye or the meter is pulling 3 watts?

I would guess that 3W is 3-wire. If the panel is 1Ø then the meter is also 1Ø. Do you have a photo of the conductors feeding the meter stack or was it underground?

[dfreund (David Freund)]

@rmeier2

I would guess that 3W is 3-wire.

Cool, thanks!

@rmeier2

Do you have a photo of the conductors feeding the meter stack or was it underground

It was underground service.

[jroot (James Root)]

@bcawhern1

@rmeier2

know that the system voltage is actually 120/240 volts.

As a generalist, conclusively identifying all voltages present or available in commercial/multi-unit buildings can be a slippery slope. You have helped me in a few of these cases, and the slope is still just as slippery for me

I am curious why this customer focused on the dryer voltage. It almost appears to be a “gotcha moment”. Hmmmm…

I wonder if the concern was to make sure that it had power on both legs.

I remember checking a range in a home once that lite up the controls properly but the burners would not get hot. Turned out that only one leg of the outlet was wired to the panel.

[rkenney (Robert (Bob) Kenney, CMI® MD Lic.# 31044)]

I’ll put my money on a DMM / measurement error. Where each leg is 122v to neutral you simply can not wind up with 213v between legs.

[dfreund (David Freund)]

@rkenney

I’ll put my money on a DMM / measurement error. Where each leg is 122v to neutral you simply can not wind up with 213v between legs

I’m with you on that one. The DMM I keep in my truck is the cheapest one I have…we have a lot of theft around here. My Fluke 87iii and my Simpson 260 (I inherited that one in 1983) stay at home

Edit: I’ll be doing some testing/diagnostics to determine if my Klein is unreliable.

[jjonas (Jeffrey Jonas)]

@rmeier2

but the heat output is only 75% of the output at 240 volts so it will take longer for the clothes to dry.

So, no different than not cleaning the lint trap before every use!!

[rkenney (Robert (Bob) Kenney, CMI® MD Lic.# 31044)]

@jjonas

So, no different than not cleaning the lint trap before every use!!

Yes different! Failing to clean the lint trap will burn out the elements (no/poor air flow) as well as poor drying. Lower voltage will not destroy the elements, just reduce drying efficiency.

[rmeier2 (Robert Meier)]

You can check that DMM on any other circuit to see if it’s accurate. For a 120/208 panel the phase voltage is equal to 120 * √3= 208 volts at 122 volts to neutral you end up with 122 * √3= 211.3 pretty close to the measurement in the photo of the OP.

[dfreund (David Freund)]

@rmeier2

You can check that DMM on any other circuit to see if it’s accurate.

Yeah, I use this DMM often for many purposes, personal and business, and have never experienced any discrepancies in the readings but I’ll be testing it for inaccuracies…Fortunately, I have an analog Simpson 260 and a Fluke 87iii DMM to help me with diagnostics…I’ll be cross-checking measurements between the three on a variety of different circuits…

@rmeier2

For a 120/208 panel the phase voltage is equal to 120 * √3= 208 volts at 122 volts to neutral you end up with 122 * √3= 211.3 pretty close to the measurement in the photo of the OP

I’ve never experienced or seen a 3-phase service (to my knowledge) in my area for residential service personally, or when conducting business in either of my two businesses (residential only) for the last couple decades or so. I appreciate the formula for calculating voltage specs on a 3-phase system

[mroberts21 (Mark Roberts)]

Because this is somewhat of a mystery, I looked up the codes on that Aclara meter.

FM12S = Form 12s

There are two versions of the 12S. The 3 phase version and the Network version.

The model number on the meter is I-210+cn. The N is for NETWORK.

When we look up the 12S Network, we find the answer…

[rmeier2 (Robert Meier)]

I’m curious at to what the label on the meter stack in your photo says. I beleive that Square D makes a 3 phase in single phase out meter stack.

[kleonard (Kevin Leonard, CPI/CMI)]

@rmeier2

When looking in the panel for potential problems does the HI normally check the voltage of the panel? Doesn’t the voltage system typically go in the inspection report?

As home inspectors we aren’t required to measure voltage, but instead to determine, if possible, the service amperage rating. This is per the Ohio SOP and most likely is the same for other SOPs.

1301.17.1.17-StandardsofPractice.pdf (ohio.gov)

[rmeier2 (Robert Meier)]

@kleonard

As home inspectors we aren’t required to measure voltage, but instead to determine, if possible, the service amperage rating.

That’s interesting because is the service voltage almost always listed in the inspection report? I can the SOP not requiring an HI to probe around in an energized panel with a tester.

[kleonard (Kevin Leonard, CPI/CMI)]

I’ve never listed the service voltage in a report. Service amperage rating only. I’m guessing because 240 and 120 are standard for most appliances and other electrical things, at least in this country.

[rmeier2 (Robert Meier)]

You’re correct. For single family dwellings it’s about 100% always 120/240. Multi-family dwellings, condos, townhouses, can have 120/208.

[jdepiero (Joseph DePiero, CMI OH 2019004114)]

I never list the service voltage either in a residential report. Industrial and commercial reports are a whole different animal.

[mroberts21 (Mark Roberts)]

@rmeier2

That’s interesting because is the service voltage almost always listed in the inspection report?

Not listed in any of my reports. If I used my Klein digital tester, you can see it in the image, but I don’t reference it and I often just use the more compact Ideal tester anyway.