2nd Floor Window Safety

Originally Posted By: jmyers
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Russell,


Are you saying that if I throw one of the significant others kids hard enough they won't go through the screen? ![icon_lol.gif](upload://zEgbBCXRskkCTwEux7Bi20ZySza.gif)

Joe Myers


Originally Posted By: rmeyers
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Joe,


That depends on several factors applied to a rather complicated formula involving, among others, the following factors; the mass of the projectile x range x velocity which is a function of the anger level at the time of launch!! ![icon_lol.gif](upload://zEgbBCXRskkCTwEux7Bi20ZySza.gif) ![icon_lol.gif](upload://zEgbBCXRskkCTwEux7Bi20ZySza.gif)

As with any safety device, I'm sure it can be overcome if we try hard enough. The manufacturer claims a design that will withstand a load of 500 lbs. from the interior which I would think would contain most children in a normal play scenario accidentally falling against the screen.

When I called the number referenced in my earlier post, the screen manufacturer was Keystone Industries Inc. out of New Castle, PA. Their web site offered more info. upon request. Again, just a starting point, I'm sure there are other manufacturers out there dealing with this important safety product.
www.keystone-industries.com

May all your kids be securely contained and protected by life's safety screens!!!

Have a Great Day!!!


--
Russ Meyers

Originally Posted By: jmyers
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Russell,


You can figure about 140 pounds, not more than 10 feet, say at not more than 4 feet per second. Is that more than 500 pounds?

Just checking, I certainly would not throw my own kids but many times the others do try my patience! ![icon_biggrin.gif](upload://iKNGSw3qcRIEmXySa8gItY6Gczg.gif)

Joe Myers

P.S. Being a reloader I should know this one.


Originally Posted By: roconnor
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Russ … thanks for the link. A lot more info than the watered down CPSC #5124 on window protection. And I am curious to know what the outcome will be.


P.S. You guys "should" be happy to know that you are not expected to throw anything (or anybody) at or out a window in order for it to qualify as an escape opening. The IRC minimum opening size is actually set so a fireman with a tank can enter (20"wx24"h, 5.7 sf, and 44" aff minimums). It also must be operable without the use of any keys or tools. I think throwing my ex out the window would be using a "tool" ... ![icon_rolleyes.gif](upload://iqxt7ABYC2TEBomNkCmZARIrQr6.gif)

Rob


Originally Posted By: rking
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Wow, so much info…So little time icon_sad.gif


Robert O.,, I am a volunteer firefighter and I did not know that rule ,
and I know a few firefighters that would not fit through an opening that size without any gear on
But thanks for the reference, I am going to ask a few of my captains if they know that


--
Muskoka Home Inspections
"Wisdom is the Anticipation of the Consequences"
Steering Committee Member At Large

Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley
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Window size brings me to a new question.


In the case of awning windows which is the standard window around here. I'm looking at three windows in my living room which are 20"x60", but each of the four individual windows are 15"x20". Awning windows open up and down (the opposite of casement) and don't fully open at that. They are in every period of home construction including new. How do they meet the size requirement. It would take tools to pry the individual window panes out of the frame. ![icon_confused.gif](upload://qv5zppiN69qCk2Y6JzaFYhrff8S.gif)

Blaine


Originally Posted By: psabados
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Hey Blaine


Your answer was in your statement. Living Room! least Im assuming thats what you're talking about. More than one way in or out correct? More concern is the bedrooms. Do they meet the safety requirements?

If you have awnings installed in the bedrooms, then you have a potential safety condition.

Paul


Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley
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OK, let me try this again.


All windows in this area, living rooms, bedrooms, bathrooms. My sons and my daughters bedrooms are awning style. They are 36x48 with two panes each 18x48. The master bedroom has the same size windows as the living room and family room. So.........

Blaine


Originally Posted By: psabados
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So… Sounds like to me, that your home is around 30 yrs old or more. Built back before egress codes were in place. Probably pretty high up on the wall too. Keep your axe handy.


Safety hazard and a consideration. Replacement not required at this time. However, if you start upgrading you may have to replace them. Also, if you rent the house out, you more than likely will have to upgrade, based on local zoning laws.

In a lot of local juristictions a simple hard-wired smoke alarm system is the only thing required as an upgrade.

FYI when giving window and door measurements its width X height. Sounds like your windows are 18" wide X 48" high. Two vertical units installed side by side, both opening upwards. Also 18x48 exceeds the 5.7 sq ft rule.

When did the NFPA adopt the egress codes? Can't find reference

Paul


Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley
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Paul,


My house is eleven years old. I did a 1 year old house yesterday that has windows the same size, same style. I know measurements are width x height and I did f*** up and reverse my kids windows measurements.

I did say in my original question that these sizes and style of window are in every period of construction around here, including new.

I think I'll just recommend to everyone that they keep a sledge hammer in each room.... ![icon_lol.gif](upload://zEgbBCXRskkCTwEux7Bi20ZySza.gif)

Blaine


Originally Posted By: rking
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Blaine,


The windows are there, that is basically the requirement. If you look closely at the hinge on the window there is a spot at about three quarter of the winding action that the hinge rod pops apart quite easily allowing the window to open fully.
Of course that might not help a child or a person panicking but they do open up enough in any case for most people to wriggle their way out in an emergency situation.

The whole idea of the egress is that there is some way out of a room on the exterior of the house if the normal passage through the house is blocked. Just about anyone would be able to find something to throw through that window, even if it was fixed, to get out of a burning house!


--
Muskoka Home Inspections
"Wisdom is the Anticipation of the Consequences"
Steering Committee Member At Large

Originally Posted By: roconnor
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RK … those egress/rescue opening guidelines are from the IRC. See these links for the basic provisions, with a picture of the intent with a firefighter entering a window. Pretty tight sometimes … but it is a “code minimum” … icon_rolleyes.gif


http://www.codecheck.com/pdf/building/ccwsamplep7bld.pdf
http://www.codecheck.com/bldframe.htm#anchor993147
http://www.cityoffargo.com/Inspections/EGRESS_HANDOUT.doc

BW ... until recently FL did not adopt a statewide building code, and codes/enforcement was on a local basis. They have their own state code (not IRC) with a lot of local amendments, so its best to check with the local building official on new construction and window replacements.

http://www.fhba.com/newreleases/legislative/02_20_02bldgcd.htm
http://www.collierem.org/AllHz/BldgCd.htm
http://www.sbcci.org/floridacodes.htm

Rob


Originally Posted By: rking
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Robert O,


You are a wealth of information. Thank you.
Glad to have you on my side!!


--
Muskoka Home Inspections
"Wisdom is the Anticipation of the Consequences"
Steering Committee Member At Large

Originally Posted By: psabados
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Robert


Great links again.

Tha man who has the information, has the power

Thanks again

Paul


Originally Posted By: mrose
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Hi All,


Here is a reprint of an article related to this subject.

Preventing Window Falls
by Bob
ASHI Member

In spite of the best efforts of health officials to educate the public, summer months always seem to brig sad reports of another toddler falling from a window and suffering serious injury or death. According to the Consumer Products Safety Commission (CPSC), about 12 children 10 years old and younger die each year, and more than 4,000 are treated in hospital emergency rooms for window fall-related injuries.?

Window falls can occur in any home or apartment. Regardless of the location, a window fall places tremendous stress and guilt on parents and caretakers, who through hindsight realize the accident was preventable. The burden of such a catastrophe can be overwhelming.

Perhaps as home inspectors, we can help prevent window fall tragedies by educating our clients about window safety. The ASH! Standards of Practice state ?the inspector is not required to report on screening,? but the inspector is required to examine a representative sample of windows.? I suggest each inspector initiate a field practice? of explaining window safety guidelines during a home inspection, and including them in the report


We all know it is impossible to supervise a toddler every second of every day. Therefore, a home should be made ?childproof.? Parents routinely install childproof locks on cabinets and safety gates across staircases. Sadly, many parents fail to realize until it is too late that window safety deserves the same attention. ASHI inspectors have a unique opportunity to educate the public during a home inspection regarding the prevention of window falls. As home inspectors, we are in the communication business, and I believe educating the public about safety should he a routine part of every inspection.

A window is part of the building envelope that functions as a source of light, ventilation and emergency egress. A window is also an attractive nuisance to a toddler. Children are curious, they like to climb, and they like to look out of windows. Parents need to understand that window screens are designed to keep bugs out, not to keep children in. Screens used in today?s windows are only secured by a thin rubber gasket, and will easily break when subjected to the weight of a child. Even a fall from a first story window can result in trauma or fatality.

The purpose of window stops and the value of window guards should be explained to the public, as well as the reasons for opening the top of the window for ventilation. Teach your clients that window stops are not solely for burglary prevention, but also to prevent the lower sash from being raised far enough for a toddler to fall out. Explain that purchasing window guards should he included when ?childproofing? the home, and that window guards should comply with CPSC guidelines and local fire department and building code requirements.

CPSC publishes the following guidelines for preventing window falls. Consider sharing them with your clients.

Install window guards to prevent children from falling out of windows. (For windows on the sixth floor and below, install window guards that adults and older children can open easily in case of fire. For windows on the seventh floor and above, permanent window guards can he installed.)

Guards should be installed in children?s bedrooms, parents? bedroom, and other rooms where young children spend time.

? Or, install window stops that permit windows to open no more than 4 inches.

? Never depend on screens to keep children from falling our of windows.

? Whenever possible, open windows from the top ? not the bottom.

? Keep furniture away from windows, to discourage children from climbing near windows.

For further information, contact your local or state Board of Health or visit the following Web sites:
www.cpsc.gov
www.windowsafe.com
www.windowcoveringsorg/ index.htni~

http://www.nsc.org/library/facts/ kidfalls.htm?

Bob Mulloy,, is president of AlIsafe Home Inspection Service, Inc., East Bridgewater, Moss.
ASHI Reporter
September 2002 pg 23

Best regards,


--
Mike Rose
Cornerstone Home Inspection Co. LLC
Lawrenceville, GA

www.cornerstonehomeinspect.com

Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley
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Robert,


Thanks for the links, those will be very helpful ![icon_biggrin.gif](upload://iKNGSw3qcRIEmXySa8gItY6Gczg.gif)

Blaine


Originally Posted By: rking
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Thanks Mike,


That is a good bit of information and he has a point!
Unfortunately if we start talking window safety then we are going to have to talk safety about everything. Wow, my inspection time just doubled!
Now including a copy of this or something similar in our report is an excellent suggestion!


--
Muskoka Home Inspections
"Wisdom is the Anticipation of the Consequences"
Steering Committee Member At Large

Originally Posted By: roconnor
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Your welcome guys … glad I could help out.


You can thank Nick ... he twisted my arm to join and participate on the BB ... made me an offer I couldn't refuse ... ![icon_lol.gif](upload://zEgbBCXRskkCTwEux7Bi20ZySza.gif)


--
Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee

I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong

Originally Posted By: Ron Hollingshead
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Ugly situation, but happens all too often in the business.


Looks like a standard 3x5 single hung window. The builder put the window there to meet egress req.s (IRC 310.1) and it may even be tempered (IRC 308.4). No requirements (YET) for guardrails.

I've done this myself dozens of times when building customs, and I cringe everytime. Usually happens when the client wants to make the "bonus" area above the garage a bedroom. And I've had code officials make me meet IRC 310.1 for that bonus room, just in case it got turned into a bedroom.

I want to hear the results of the meeting you mentioned. I'll bet that if the aforementioned codes are met, then the client gets nada.

Sometimes, the rock and the hard place is just the way it is.

Ron


Originally Posted By: psabados
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Just a quick follow-up on the window. The owner had a meeting with the builder, nothing settled yet. The owner has not yet heard from AHJ. That meeting was cancelled last week and hasn’t been rescheduled.


The owner is requesting that a smaller window be installed at proper height.

Paul