Originally Posted By: psabados This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
This is a 3 month old house. I was called by the owners to perform an inspection due to a considerable amount of problems.
The window in question is a second story bedroom occupied by a four year old. The owner called the local AHJ Dept about height concerns and safety glass. The AHJ sent an e-mail back to the owner stating that they would not allow occupancy of a dwelling with windows not meeting codes. He pointed IRC reg's requiring 18" min floor clearance etc. etc.
Top of the window sill to grade is about 11 feet. The is a small overhang at the front extending approx. 18 inches out. Also, builder still hasn't provided any screens.
Originally Posted By: psabados This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Beats the hell out of me. This particular house design was built 3 times on this street. Only one of the three has this window 18" above the finished floor. All 3 houses are in plain view of each other. It must have been a 100 degree’s outside when they did their final or something
They're spending to much time at Duncan Donuts or at the riverboats
Originally Posted By: rking This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Joe,
Even if that bottom portion of window is 'fixed' so that it does not open, it still is required to be tempered glass,.
Picture a four year old kid stuck in that broken glass because it broke into shards not shattered into itsy bitsy pieces  .
Good call Paul. I had a realtor tell me I was nuts when I pointed out something similar in a home I inspected and my client had an 18 month old and a three and a half year old child. The realtor told me it was an easy fix...Put a table or chair in front of the window in question
Needless to say I have not done another inspection for that particular office because I "was too good" and my client asked for a small rebate.
-- Muskoka Home Inspections
"Wisdom is the Anticipation of the Consequences"
Steering Committee Member At Large
Originally Posted By: jmyers This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Robert,
I did not know they sell windows without safety glass. Who manufactured the window? To be honest I never really looked at my own windows, or my personal favorite, ANDERSON. I just always assumed! 
Originally Posted By: psabados This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Joe
The window is clearly marked Anderson. Standard units, thermal glazing with fake mullions between the panes. Tilt in for cleaning.
I think either the builder or supplier screwed up the order on two of the three homes. Had a chance to look at the third house and the window is a little shorter, by 12 inches. So the floor clearance there is 18 inches.
This house and the other, 2 doors down, were finished at the same time.
I gave the owner a copy of the photo's on a floppy and he's emailing the AHJ tomorrw wanting an explanation. I asked him to keep me informed on progress. My guess is that the bldr will have to install some short of window bar protection.
Originally Posted By: rking This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Joe,
Hardly any windows to my knowledge are manufactured with tempered glass.
Tempered glass is required when the window is within 18" of the floor, in a shower, in a stairwell or a skylight (which are always tempered I believe).
To tell if a window is tempered there should be a small engraving in a bottom corner with 'tempered' or a short form of that in one manner or another, look at a window in an automobile it will have the same insignia on it.
-- Muskoka Home Inspections
"Wisdom is the Anticipation of the Consequences"
Steering Committee Member At Large
Originally Posted By: kluce This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I never thought of this before. When buying a sliding glass door or a door with windows, it does say tempered. What happens when it’s replaced with a new piece of tempered glass. Should it also say tempered glass?
Originally Posted By: psabados This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Tempered glass will have an etch stamp usually in one of the corners. Another indication of glass being tempered are tong marks or dimples along the edge of the glass
Tong marks are formed when the piece of glass is put back into the furnace for tempering
The etching should be in the lower corners, if installed properly. A lot of sliding glass door breakage does not get replaced with tempered glass.
Sometimes laminated glass will be used and unless it was factory ordered it will not have an emblem. You really have to look at the glass and the edges in the frame to see it
Originally Posted By: roconnor This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
If the window lower is fixed for fall protection as suggested by JM, then impact protection can be solved with a guard meeting IRC 308.4 (assuming that is the code). But it’s mounted at 36" AFF, so with small kids a second impact guard at 18" is probably a good idea … just be careful that the window is not a required emergency escape opening, or that there is sufficient operable area above the guard …
– Robert O’Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee
I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong
Originally Posted By: psabados This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Robert
Good point, this was the only window in this room. However, this bedroom has a hollywood bath. I don't remember seeing locks on the bath doors, so they couldn't be accidentally locked from gaining access to the bathroom tub area, just at the toilet.
Another point on sliding glass doors. Pay attention to these doors especially if the house was built prior to 1975. I can't remember exactly when the regs. required tempered glass but it was right around this time.
Most of these will be the bulkier looking aluminum doors with larger sized rollers and mainly single plate glass installed. I remember looking a new model homes about this time and they all had 4 inch red circle decals across the width, so you wouldn't try to walk through the glass
Originally Posted By: roconnor This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Just keep in mind that the window guard is for impact protection, and not fall protection. Fall protection may still be required if the lower half of the window remains opperable. That would require guards where a 4" ball can not pass through (keeps a small child from crawling through).
It may still qualify as an escape opening if there is enough opperable area above the impact/fall protection guards (can be up to 44" AFF under the IRC). Exiting throught a bathroom is a grey area
Soulds like the AHJ should be consulted before anything is done.
P.S. You mean the glazing on the sliding glass doors didnt have a warning like ... "DO NOT WALK INTO THIS GLASS" ... 
-- Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee
I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong
Originally Posted By: psabados This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Thanks Robert
The home owner is having a meeting with the builder and the AHJ to come up with the correct solution to this problem. He said he'd let me know the outcome and try to find out why no one flagged the window.
This would be a great meeting to attend and watch all the side stepping thats going to occur
Again thanks for the code Ref.
It's strange about the sliding glass door thing. Kind of like a moth being attracted to the light. Don't look at the glass, oh no to late its already cast a spell on me, can't look away CRASH!
Originally Posted By: roconnor This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
There doesn’t seem to be any clear agreement or provision in the IRC on window heights for fall protection. So I would love to be a fly on the wall at that meeting …
Some building officials apply the 36" rule in IRC R316 (my call) and others apply the 18" rule in R308 (incorrectly I think, since that was only intended to be for impact protection ... e.g. glass bathroom sliders without safety glazing).
P.S. I understand the a provision was approved by the ICC for the next edition of the IRC that would require fall protection (where a 4" ball can not pass) for any window with a sill height less than 24" AFF that can open more than 4" or is not impact resistant (probably similar to wind borne debris requirements). I am curious to see how that will read since I work as a p/t building official sometimes.
-- Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee
I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong
Originally Posted By: jmyers This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Robert K.
Thanks for the information, I did not know that. 
To be honest I am not sure I would want the tempered glass installed whether the window was within 18 inches of the floor or not.
If that window would be the last resort to exit the home, tempered glass is a little more difficult to break and they would actually need some object to break it, like a chair versus breaking standard glass with say a book.
Originally Posted By: rking This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Joe M.
Glad to help.  After all that is the idea of this message board!
Well except for allowing us all to rant and rave every now and then
-- Muskoka Home Inspections
"Wisdom is the Anticipation of the Consequences"
Steering Committee Member At Large
Originally Posted By: rmeyers This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Paul,
Had a similar situation years ago with local Public Housing Rehab inspection. There are a few suppliers around that manufacture safety screens that can be custom manufactured to fit the application in question. As with anything "Custom" however it is costly!
As I recall, the screens were a heavy gauge stainless steel mesh in a welded frame with a piano type hinge on one side and a "childproof" latch system. I can't remember the exact configuration of the latch system. A representative of the window company commercial division would probably be familiar with this type product.
Looking forward to hearing what solution is worked out!  
LOL 
