Window sill height

Originally Posted By: pdacey
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How low would a second floor window sill need to be before you would write it up as a falling hazard?



Slainte!


Patrick Dacey
swi@satx.rr.com
TREC # 6636
www.southwestinspections.com

Originally Posted By: dfrend
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Not sure about any set standard, but I found an article at the American Academy of Pediatrics at http://aappolicy.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/pediatrics%3b107/5/1188. It states Chicago is one of the few cities with codes on this and they require window guards on all windows under 2 feet from floor to sill. It also says it is hardly enforced.


An interesting note, 12% of all unintentional deaths to children are from window falls, with falls in general being second in pediactric deaths oonly to car accidents. Falls in general from more than one story are the leading cause of non fatal injury to children.


--
Daniel R Frend
www.nachifoundation.org
The Home Inspector Store
www.homeinspectorstore.com

Originally Posted By: pdacey
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Very interesting. I’ve been commenting on any sill below 24". There are a lot of houses here where the sills are only 18-21" from the floor. The reason I asked is an agent made a remark to me the other day that he has never had an inspector make that comment before.


My reply was...."I'm not just any inspector."


--
Slainte!

Patrick Dacey
swi@satx.rr.com
TREC # 6636
www.southwestinspections.com

Originally Posted By: dfrend
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While it certainly is not usually going to be a major sticking point in the sale as literally thousands of homes and especially condos have this issue, it (based on those stats) is a huge safety issue. And that definitely warrants reporting it and suggesting solutions like the ones in the above article.


For those who think it is not a problem, In the past 10 years I have personally run 5 calls for kids that have fallen from the windows in a local complex of condos. These particular ones are florr to ceiling windows with a lower quarter being sliding glass and screens. About 12 years ago on a fire in one of these a close friend of mine who was 17 was doing a search when the room flashed over and he thought the opening there was a balcony and fell 4 floors landing on his bottle on his back. While it ruined his dream of going paid, he was lucky to live and still fights fire as a volunteer.

For the reasons above, I have always reported low windows.


--
Daniel R Frend
www.nachifoundation.org
The Home Inspector Store
www.homeinspectorstore.com

Originally Posted By: gbeaumont
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Hi to all,


I think you will find that IRC prohibits the instalation of windows where the bottom of the glazing is less than 18' above the Floor, unless a safety bar is fitted across the opening.

I'll look for the code later

regards

Gerry


--
Gerry Beaumont
NACHI Education Committee
e-mail : education@nachi.org
NACHI phone 484-429-5466

Inspection Depot Education
gbeaumont@inspectiondepot.com

"Education is a journey, not a destination"

Originally Posted By: dfrend
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But that would not effect existing older windows, correct? And is that only on windows over a certain height? I have seen lots of new homes with low windows on the first floor.



Daniel R Frend


www.nachifoundation.org


The Home Inspector Store


www.homeinspectorstore.com

Originally Posted By: gbeaumont
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Quote:
part 6: Glazing in an individual or fixed or operable panel that meets all the following conditions.
6.1. exposed area of an individual pane greater than 9 sq/ft
6.2. bottom edge less than 18" above the floor
6.3. top edge greater than 36" above the foor
6.4. one or more walking surfaces with 36" horizontally

Exception: glazing bar is installed 36" above the floor.


I hope that helps

regards

Gerry


--
Gerry Beaumont
NACHI Education Committee
e-mail : education@nachi.org
NACHI phone 484-429-5466

Inspection Depot Education
gbeaumont@inspectiondepot.com

"Education is a journey, not a destination"

Originally Posted By: phughes
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Isn’t the 18" requirement only part of the requirement as related to have safety glass?


Originally Posted By: phughes
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This is an interesting topic.


Many houses have upstairs bedrooms and game rooms with window seats and storage boxes. These are great places for kids to play and gives them access to the window that is above 24 or so inches above the floor line.

I try to warn the client that this can creat a falling hazard, but I don't know if there are any special building requirements for these situations.


Originally Posted By: rcloyd
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The bar is in lieu of the safety glazing. If the window does not meet the criteria for safety glazing as listed in Gerry’s post, a bar is not required.


Unless you are operating in a jurasdiction that has adopted/written a safety code that would require it.



Regards,


--
Russell G. Cloyd
Intra-Spec Home Inspections
& Code Consulting, LLC
859-586-4591
www.intra-spechomeinspections.com

Originally Posted By: jmyers
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Here in good old PA, it is common for our older homes to have low windows. I always point that out, especially to those clients that have children.


The worst seem to be the third floor (attic) windows which is typically converted into living space.

I am curious if the IRC takes into account if the windows have the latch which prevents small children from opening them. Typically, the ones that I have seen only allow the window to be opened a few inches. Would the rule still apply to those windows that have those types of safety mechanisms built into the window?

Joe Myers


Originally Posted By: dbowers
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What I see here a lot, is a stair from the 2nd floor down to a landing (5-6 stairs down), then the landing does a “switchback” and turns 180 degrees and the next set of 5-6 stairs go on down to the 1st floor. There’s almost always a LARGE WINDOW on that landing that starts about 6" off the floor and is about 5’ or so tall - often they’re single pane windows with a storm window outside.


I've always thought this was a major safety hazard for people with kids (if the folks were attached to the wee ones). You know how rowdy kids can be chasing each other or racing down the stairs, etc. Every time I've brought it up I've gotten fond glances and well worded comments from the realestators who were impressed by my forethought - NOT!

Dan Bowers (Kansas City)


Originally Posted By: Susan
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You would think that this would be a uncommon thing to see with modern day codes.


Friday I did a final inspection on a new construction. All four bedrooms upstairs had window sills less that 18" from the floor. None of the windows had a stamp/marking of any sort to indicate they were safety tested glass. The builder had to get written documentation from the window manufacturer with the safety/testing info.

The safety latch is a great idea!! Kids are curious by nature. Then there's the blind cords.....it only takes a second!!!

Don't hesitate when it comes to safety. If you notice something, always provide info.!!

Sue


Originally Posted By: dfrend
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Quote:
Every time I've brought it up I've gotten fond glances and well worded comments from the realestators who were impressed by my forethought - NOT!


It may cost you some agent's business, but we are obligated to report it if it looks unsafe. Most real estate agent's know that a client is not likely to stop the sale of a house because a window is too close to the floor for safety. Rather, most will either ask the seller to add some sort of safety device or will do it themselves.

Anyhow, once they fall through the window it won't be a hazard to them anymore, since they probably will learn the lesson. ![icon_twisted.gif](upload://xjO326gspdTNE5QS3UTl0a0Rtvy.gif)


--
Daniel R Frend
www.nachifoundation.org
The Home Inspector Store
www.homeinspectorstore.com

Originally Posted By: Ryan Jackson
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I have found that many times the 18" glazing provision doesn’t apply. The window must be less than 18", greater than 36" in height and also must have a single pane greater than 9 sqaure feet. If it doesn’t meet all of the provisions, the safety glazing is not required.



Ryan Jackson, Salt Lake City

Originally Posted By: pdacey
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My original question was not about safety glass requirements. It is about a low sill height being a falling hazard and if anyone else writes it up as a safety concern.



Slainte!


Patrick Dacey
swi@satx.rr.com
TREC # 6636
www.southwestinspections.com

Originally Posted By: jpeck
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From the 2003 IRC.


[B] R308.4 Hazardous locations. The following shall be considered specific hazardous locations for the purposes of glazing:

- 7. Glazing in an individual fixed or operable panel, other than those locations described in Items 5 and 6 above, that meets all of the following conditions:
- - 7.1. Exposed area of an individual pane greater than 9 square feet (0.836 m2).
- - 7.2. Bottom edge less than 18 inches (457 mm) above the floor.
- - 7.3. Top edge greater than 36 inches (914 mm) above the floor.
- - 7.4. One or more walking surfaces within 36 inches (914 mm) horizontally of the glazing.

Exception: The following products, materials and uses are exempt from the above hazardous locations:

5. Glazing in Section R308.4, Items 7 and 10, when a protective bar is installed on the accessible side(s) of the glazing 36 inches +/-2 inches (914 mm +/- 51 mm) above the floor. The bar shall be capable of withstanding a horizontal load of 50 pounds per linear foot (74.5 kg/m)without contacting the glass and be a minimum of 11/2 inches (38 mm) in height.

I think the Exception # 5 is what you are looking for.


--
Jerry Peck
South Florida

Originally Posted By: Ryan Jackson
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pdacey wrote:
My original question was not about safety glass requirements. It is about a low sill height being a falling hazard and if anyone else writes it up as a safety concern.


If you are concerned, then I would say the same provisions for gaurdrails would prevent a fall hazard...36".


--
Ryan Jackson, Salt Lake City

Originally Posted By: roconnor
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Bottom line. The 18" rule and provisions for safety glass from IRC R308 is only to ensure someone doesn't get cut up bad ... it's not for fall protection. I agree with Ryan that the current IRC would require a 36" height for fall protection ... below which some type of fall protection grill (with 4" max openings) or other protection (special window type, that also is fixed or has a has a fixed lower sash) would be required.

There is talk of adding a 24" window sill height requirement to the next edition of the IRC, which seems reasonable.

Just my 2-nickles


--
Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee

I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong

Originally Posted By: pdacey
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Thank you Ryan and Robert.



Slainte!


Patrick Dacey
swi@satx.rr.com
TREC # 6636
www.southwestinspections.com