In the compliance biz, should is a requirement.
I was a compliance engineer for an NRTL and we “required” when “should” was in the standard.
YMMV
I understand that. My post was a follow up to my specific experience in a hospital environment.
There is no requirement in residential construction for orientation.
Sorry if I confused anyone.
No I was perplexed by the statement and yes I was asking out of concern and not expecting tongue and cheek.
I take electrical very seriously and will only start when I am 100 percent confident that I can equate my findings correctly.
I did not mean to be aggressive for I was taken back and would have enjoyed a little explanation about way the wall socket being sideways and was looking for answers not humor.
I lack the electrical and hvac portion and that Is why I am here at INACHI.
Sorry really I am, but I am that safety nut and electrical means a lot and I am seeking direction and clairaty and electrical is the last piece of the puzel for me.
I will keep that in mind.
Again sorry I did not mean to be rude.
You are right Mr.Pope I looked in my room and the pin is on the top of the light switch that controls the socket…
Other areas it does not be so apparent they are mixed being up or down.
I am trying to draw conclusions and every one here is helping.
Thanks.
Sorry if I seem testy but the part about, full time or part time inspectors logo and the campaign has me aggravated.
Every one here has been helpful everywhere on the message board.
Honestly take my aggression with a grain of salt. I have never in my life been so happy as I am now about to be a full time residential building inspector.
Every one here has been helpful.
Although there are all sorts of opinions and theories regarding installations with the ground up there is really no evidence that the ground on top is any safer then the ground down. If there were the Code Making Panel of the NEC wouldn’t have rejected this argument in every code cycle that it has come up.
I respectfully disagree. In my experience, “should” has always been a recommendation. “Shall” is a requirement. At least based on my experience with OSHA, DOT, EPA, the NRC, the State of NC Home Inspector Licensure Board, etc.
Mr.Pope and others I do thank you for your answers to my question, for I though it was useful to me.
As for the remark if it was sideways on a backslash, it was not tongue and cheek.
It could have been a violation in many ways for you did not enplane it representation to everything with in it proximity and if it was a ground fault plug being close to the or behind the sink.
I know a smub when I get on.
This kind of argument reminds of one my brother had with his hunting buddy. They decided to buy two pigs and raise them to slaughter for meat. The buddy had place in the country and agreed to hold the pigs. When it came time to kill and butcher one of the hogs, the buddy couldn’t bring himself to do it so my brother went down and shot the hog. When his buddy came down to help, he informed my brother he had shot the "wrong’ pig. They argued back and forth for a few minutes then my brother ended it by saying, “Well, I guaran-damn-tee you I will get it right next time.”
Robert -
Short Version. When you start inspecting, find something worth writing up, this ain’t it.
Was that an intentional smub? You’re in for it now buddy! :mrgreen:
Its these kinds of questions that will allow me to find whats important Mr.Bowers and distinguish me from the rest, that’s all.
I always excelled in life and like to ask questions ,because its my inquisitive nature.
As explained I am a safety nut and 35 years of construction with out 1 day lost due to accidents. I Inquisitive plus construction of all kinds- 2 trades-1 apprenticeship- oilfield and all through observation.
I am not doing to bad.
Robert,
Do not be afraid to ask questions.
As my engine rebuild teacher said, “There are no stupid questions, just stupid mistakes”.
He was referring to a cylinder head up on the wall which was supposed to be milled .010 of an inch.
The inch wide gash in the cylinder head was caused because someone didn’t ask “Was it .01 or 1.0”?
And no, it wasn’t me!
What is the value of a should statement in any standard?
Think about this: If something should be done is it less safe if it isn’t?
Mr.Van De Ven.
I see you to had mentors in your life that left sustaining comments and practices etched in your mind.
Sure beats tongue and cheeks sarcastic comments that only etches ones mind with’’ sh-t do I take his words as ‘’ wisdom and meaning’’ naay it so and so again just pass by without looking.
Thank you Mr.Van De Ven
• Should has, as its most common meaning in modern English, the sense ought as in I should go, but I don’t see how I can. However, the older sense as the subjunctive of the future indicative auxiliary, shall, is often used with I or we to indicate a more polite form than would: I should like to go, but I can’t. In much speech and writing, should has been replaced by would in contexts of this kind, but it remains in conditional subjunctives: should (never would) I go, I should wear my new dress.
• (obligation): Contrast with stronger auxiliary verb must, which indicates that the subject is required to execute the predicate.
• (likely): Contrast with stronger auxiliary verb must, which indicates that the subject certainly will execute the predicate.
• See the usage notes at shall.
• (auxiliary) Used to form the future tense of the subjunctive mood, usually in the first person.
If I should be late, go without me.
Should it rain, I shall go indoors.
Should you need extra blankets, you will find them in the closet.
• Shall denotes simple futurity in the first person.
• Will denotes simple futurity in the second and third persons.
Hence, the following were supposed to be the proper forms of expressing simple futurity:
• I shall/you will die some day. (Declarative)
• Shall I/will they be here to-morrow? (Interrogative)
However, will is commonly used in all persons to express simple futurity.
I hope that help but I agree with Mr.Lawrson.
Robert,
Please call me Eric!!
Here is another individual who left an impression,my American Lit teacher, Mr. Anselmi:
“Why didn’t Betty stir?”
Joe - It wasn’t a snub / Just a fact.
Robert - I’m guessing that you haven’t taken a classroom training course yet. When you do it will answer many of these type questions for you. OR you can throw them at the other students and instructor.
About 7 years ago I was hired to do radon test on a house. The agent told me the people had someone from their church (a repair guy) doing their home inspection for them. I show up and windows are open.
I explain what I’m doing / That I will need to EXTEND the test a little longer than NORM to compensate and start doing so. The part-time repair guy / home inspector was busily at work. I’m in the basement setting up my radon monitor stands, AND all of a sudden I’m almost blown out of my shoes by him yelling at the top of his lungs upstairs. Don’t remember everybodies names BUT it was along the lines of …
“Nancy, Bob come here quick - You need to see this. Thinking there may be some emergency everybody in the house runs upstairs. Hes standing in front of an electrical outlet in a wall about 12” off the floor. It DID NOT have a COVER PLATE on it. He then proceeds to tell this young couple how if little johnny (18 months old) was crawling across the floor dragging a pan of water with him - and had 1 hand in the water and with a nail or other metal object in his other hand - stuck the nail in the uncovered wall outlet / how the kid could get electrocuted - how the house could burn, etc, etc".
**
He was scary / I’m an inspector and he darned near had me running for the door.
During the 30 minutes I was there he did that twice more. When I went to pick the radon up 3 days later I asked the agent how the deal was going. She told me IT was dead. She said the inspector had done the exact same thing all the way through the house. She indicated he was there right at 6 hours on a 18 year old / 1500 sf ranch on a mostly unfinished basement AND had generated a **5 page SUMMARY **sheet of issues just like the missing cover plate AND had managed to tie some type of story tied to each that had them dying, going bankrupt, etc with his WHAT IF scenarios. The agent said a little over 1/2 way through the inspection, the lady buyer started crying and stopped the inspection.
I asked her to send me a copy of just his SUMMARY sheets - she was PISSED big time and did. I read them and didn’t know whether to cry, laugh or throw up. This yo-yo had filled 5 pages of SUMMARY with things like the grease pans under the range burners are dirty; door knobs are loose; the fireplace glass doors are sooted up; theres stains on the carpet; the splash block has been moved out from under the end of the downspout (probably by a lawn mower) and needs to be pushed back about 8", etc, etc; etc. UNREAL
Over Half the stuff there was of this nature. At this point we understand a real estate agents pain, frustration and anger with dim-witted home inspectors. A perfectly good deal KILLED because some yo-yo has no clue whats important AND whats not.
In MY area, I’m looking for conditions that can seriously hurt someone because of health, safety or welfare. I’m also looking for SIGNIFICANT mechanical or structural defects. I’m not trying to rebuild the house, or turn a 65 year old house into a 5 year old house. I want to know if the cabinets will stay on the wall when I load it with dishes - I have NO interest in whether the hinges are tarnished.
Robert - What I’m saying is questions are good; but look the condition and try to imagine what it would take to hurt someone or something. DO NOT get bogged down with trivia. Theres more than enough serious stuff to go around. Again, when you get into a decent inspection school, they’ll help you weed out whats real and whats not.
ERIC
I am sorry Eric I miss or can not understand the question and there for perplexed to its meaning.
Is it a riddle or beginning or opening sentance to a well know book?
Not to get too far off track, but “Safety Tips for Preventing Hospital Bed Fires” is not a standard.
No you are quiet right Mr.Bowers
As for school I have been asked to teach safety in Montreal and take it with pride.
It was a valid question and asked , I also will not be picking a house apart for every inane defect but mostly be noting everything I observe and whats not relevant for the buyer will be logged for my use.
That is all.
I have wired homes and built or managed building 5 home and work the trades all my life 34 plus years.
Inside and out.
I am built that way BUT I do know where to draw the line Mr.Bowers.
As yourself and others we don’t know each other and therefor its hard deriving personalities over the internet.
We make assumptions about persons and leave the imagination fill in the rest.
Residential building inspection will be only part of my new company Mr.Bowers for helping other build and repair will be the most worked on for me.
I do not like to put all my earning eggs in one basket. You know what that does.
I thank you for your honesty and tips.