AFCI lights and receptacle outlets on different circuits

Originally Posted By: Darcy Heron
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Well 5-10 years sure is better than six months of battery.


Getting back to the AFCI subject in regards to smoke detectors. I'm not sure what the code is in your area but from where im from they are not to be wired on the same circuit as AFCI.

http://www.ahba.ca/content/subindex.php?id=184

Second last paragraph,
Last sentence


Originally Posted By: jpeck
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Darcy Heron wrote:
Well 5-10 years sure is better than six months of battery.


Not really, the smoke detector goes quietly, the battery tells you 'Hey, El Stupido, I'm running down', and it does this for a very long time.

Quote:
Getting back to the AFCI subject in regards to smoke detectors. I'm not sure what the code is in your area but from where im from they are not to be wired on the same circuit as AFCI.

http://www.ahba.ca/content/subindex.php?id=184

Second last paragraph,
Last sentence


Actually, it doesn't say that.

"Rule 12-3000(1) of the CEC permits up to 12 outlets per two-wire branch circuit. In some cases this means two or three bedrooms can be serviced by one AFCI. As a note, a smoke alarm cannot be installed on the same circuit protected by an AFCI."

I'll break it apart.

"Rule 12-3000(1) of the CEC permits up to 12 outlets per two-wire branch circuit. In some cases this means two or three bedrooms can be serviced by one AFCI."

This is the AFCI for the bedroom outlets (not limited to receptacle outlets), and it states that more than one bedroom can be on the same AFCI.

"As a note, a smoke alarm cannot be installed on the same circuit protected by an AFCI. "

"cannot be installed on the same circuit", as the one used for the bedroom outlets.

The entire wording is vague and non-specific.

"12 outlets per two-wire branch circuit." 15 amp or 20 amp? Why not a difference? Receptacle outlets or all outlets? Oops, not smoke detector outlets ... see what I mean.


--
Jerry Peck
South Florida

Originally Posted By: Darcy Heron
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Jerry.


Thats the code in a nutshell. (Interpretation)
Everyones is different.


Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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The Florida IAEI is unambigious on this. Bedroom smoke detectors connected to 15 or 20a 120v circuits shall be AFCI protected. I had the same discussion.


Unfortunately you can have a dead battery that will go undetected if nobody is home during the 5 months of death beeps. That is fairly common here with snowbirds.


The only solution is to put the smoke detectors on a separate alarm circuit with a 10a breaker.


Originally Posted By: jpeck
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Greg Fretwell wrote:
The only solution is to put the smoke detectors on a separate alarm circuit with a 10a breaker.


To me, that is not a "solution", but an inappropriate 'workaround' to avoid putting them on an AFCI.

You could also use 10 AWG and put them on a 30 amp breaker.

Accomplishes the same thing.

We have a lot of snowbirds here too, and they typically live in condos. The battery solution is simple enough to correct. They have monthly pest control services which come through, simply have a semi-annual battery replacement go through, would cost about the same as a monthly pest control service, only it's only done twice a year.


--
Jerry Peck
South Florida

Originally Posted By: rrushing
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Quote:
You have to draw your line somewhere, otherwise you might as well just pitch a tent in front of the fire station.


Hey Jerry, you had a better line a couple of months back. Something to the effect;
"What more do you want.. to have a firetruck parked out front"
![icon_wink.gif](upload://ssT9V5t45yjlgXqiFRXL04eXtqw.gif)

RR


Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



[quote="jpeck


We have a lot of snowbirds here too, and they typically live in condos. The battery solution is simple enough to correct. They have monthly pest control services which come through, simply have a semi-annual battery replacement go through, would cost about the same as a monthly pest control service, only it’s only done twice a year.[/quote]


Cheap seats huh? They have 4000 sq/ft houses here and may only stay here for 20-30 days a year.

I am not sure most of these folks even know they have a battery in the smoke detector. The real estate agent probably removed it to stop the beeping before the close. I don't know why they go bad so quick but I bet half of the houses I see before close are beeping somewhere.
Replacing the battery doesn't seem to be in anyone's scope of work after the electrical final.


Originally Posted By: jpeck
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Greg,


No one said anything about "cheap seats".

Many of those condos are well over $1 mil, $2 mil, etc.

Yes, many are also in the $250,000-$500,000 range, but they are not "cheap seats" either.

Many of my inspections are for homes in the $1 mil to $8 mil range, and are only "lived in" a couple of weeks a year.

The discussions about smoke detectors was for the 'general population' and 'typical dwelling', not those other places.


--
Jerry Peck
South Florida

Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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House prices are ridiculous here in SW Fla. They just sold a 1341 sq/ft under air, 2br/ba, built in 1970, aluminum wire for $455k. (2 doors down from me)


My daughter is on your coast and she is having problems finding anything for much less than $300k


My wife builds houses $500k and up … they are still basically minimum code on tiny lots (10 feet block to block).


Originally Posted By: jpeck
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Greg,


Tomorrow's inspection is a 7,600 sf condo in Bal Harbour.


--
Jerry Peck
South Florida