AFCI lights and receptacle outlets on different circuits

Archive Public Archive
#1

Originally Posted By: rrushing
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.




All bedrooms are adequately AFCI protected at all receptacle outlets as well as the lighting outlets and smoke detector outlets. However, the bedroom receptacle outlets are on one circuit and the bedroom lighting outlet are on another circuit. I don’t see anything where this set-up is not allowed (to have the receptacles and the lighting on separate AFCI’s).


When you trip the receptacle outlets (only) AFCI breaker, the lighting remains on. When you trip the lighting AFCI (only) breaker the receptacle outlets remain on.

Was the intent of the IRC and NEC requirements for AFCI's to kill power to the entire room and ALL of its circuits by a single breaker OR, is it acceptable to have the circuits for the outlet receptacles and the lighting outlets separated? Certainly appears to me that it would be acceptable.

Per IRC 2003:
E3802.11 Bedroom outlets.
All branch circuits that supply 125-volt, single-phase, 15-and 20 ampre outlets installed in dwelling unit bedrooms shall be protected by an arc-fault circuit interrupter listed to provide protection of the entire branch circuit.

NEC has same verbage.

Richard Rushing

#2

Originally Posted By: rrushing
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.




#3

Originally Posted By: jpeck
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Every outlet could be on a separate arc-fault, no problem.


Except that is would cost a lot more.

--
Jerry Peck
South Florida

#4

Originally Posted By: rmoore
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Quote:
Was the intent of the IRC and NEC requirements for AFCI's to kill power to the entire room and ALL of its circuits by a single breaker OR, is it acceptable to have the circuits for the outlet receptacles and the lighting outlets separated? Certainly appears to me that it would be acceptable.

The intent is to shut off power to the circuit wiring and/or appliance that is experiencing arcing in order to prevent a fire. No need to shut-off all outlets in the room. As Jerry said...have as many as you want.

--
Richard Moore
Rest Assured Inspection Services
Seattle, WA
www.rainspect.com
#5

Originally Posted By: cbuell
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


The code has always been interested in not leaving a person in the dark because they tripped the recep circuit

–
It is easier to change direction than it is to forget where one has been.

#6

Originally Posted By: rmoore
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


cbuell wrote:
The code has always been interested in not leaving a person in the dark because they tripped the recep circuit


Hey Charlie...how's it going?

I'm not sure where you got the above but it certainly isn't written that way for bedroom AFCI circuits. Besides...unless you are Donald Trump, most people can find their bedroom door in the dark.

--
Richard Moore
Rest Assured Inspection Services
Seattle, WA
www.rainspect.com
#7

Originally Posted By: rwashington
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Am I wrong but aren’t the smoke detectors outlets NOT supposed to be on AFCI’s?

–
Richard W Washington


www.rwhomeinspections.com

#8

Originally Posted By: rrushing
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.





R Rushing

#9

Originally Posted By: cbuell
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Hi Richard,


I think you are right about its not actually being a part of the code, I have just had electricians tell me it was “good practice” to not have lights and receps on the same circuit. It would be interesting to know if it actually is a code requirement.

–
It is easier to change direction than it is to forget where one has been.

#10

Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


cbuell wrote:
Hi Richard,
I think you are right about its not actually being a part of the code, I have just had electricians tell me it was "good practice" to not have lights and receps on the same circuit. It would be interesting to know if it actually is a code requirement.


It is a design issue, not a code issue.
#11

Originally Posted By: Darcy Heron
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Do they sell plug in smoke detectors. If not, what is a smoke detector (outlet)?

#12

Originally Posted By: jpeck
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


cbuell wrote:
Hi Richard,
I think you are right about its not actually being a part of the code, I have just had electricians tell me it was "good practice" to not have lights and receps on the same circuit. It would be interesting to know if it actually is a code requirement.


Nope, that is not addressed.

--
Jerry Peck
South Florida
#13

Originally Posted By: jpeck
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Darcy Heron wrote:
Do they sell plug in smoke detectors. If not, what is a smoke detector (outlet)?


An "outlet" is any place where power can be taken from the circuit. This could be RECEPTACLE outlets, LIGHTING outlets, SMOKE DETECTOR outlets, CEILING FAN outlets, etc.

The common use of the term "outlet" to mean "receptacle outlet" is what leads to this confusion when the term "outlet" is used on its own as it was intended to be used (not meaning 'receptacle' outlets, but including 'receptacle' outlets).

--
Jerry Peck
South Florida
#14

Originally Posted By: Darcy Heron
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Thanks for the explanation! Much appreciated


But with that being said, Would you really want your smoke detector on the AFCI circuit.?


Quote:
An "outlet" is any place where power can be taken from the circuit. This could be RECEPTACLE outlets, LIGHTING outlets, SMOKE DETECTOR outlets, CEILING FAN outlets, etc.

The common use of the term "outlet" to mean "receptacle outlet" is what leads to this confusion when the term "outlet" is used on its own as it was intended to be used (not meaning 'receptacle' outlets, but including 'receptacle' outlets).


#15

Originally Posted By: Darcy Heron
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Sorry Jerry. When i say you i don’t mean you specifically. I mean anyone in general!!

#16

Originally Posted By: jpeck
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Darcy Heron wrote:
Would you really want your smoke detector on the AFCI circuit.?


You bet I would.

Would you rather have:

a) the smoke detector circuit start the fire, detect the fire, then announce the fire, or

b) trip the AFCI and not start the fire?

--
Jerry Peck
South Florida
#17

Originally Posted By: Darcy Heron
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Yes. But if that AFCI was tripped by something upstream from the smoke detector, and somehow a fire started. What good is a smoke detector??That is why a smoke detector must be wired on a lighting circuit or a lighting and receptacle circuit. Not a just a receptacle circuit, or an AFCI circuit or a GFCI circuit

#18

Originally Posted By: jpeck
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Darcy Heron wrote:
Yes. But if that AFCI was tripped by something upstream from the smoke detector


Which is why smoke detectors should, in my opinion, be on their own circuit. But still on an AFCI.

Besides, that is what the battery back-up is for.

What if there was a fire in the panel and you lost power, right after the fire started? No smoke detectors ... except that they have battery back-up.

--
Jerry Peck
South Florida
#19

Originally Posted By: Darcy Heron
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Do not trust a battery for your backup. How many people actually change those batteries when they are supposed to.


And if the smoke detector was on it's own circuit and for some reason the breaker tripped how do you it's not powered up, and that it is relying on the battery. Hence the need to put them on a lighting circuit. If you go into your bedroom and the lights don't work what are you going to do. I'd say check the breaker


Which is why smoke detectors should, in my opinion, be on their own circuit. But still on an AFCI.

Besides, that is what the battery back-up is for.

What if there was a fire in the panel and you lost power, right after the fire started? No smoke detectors ... except that they have battery back-up.[/quote]

#20

Originally Posted By: jpeck
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Darcy Heron wrote:
Do not trust a battery for your backup. How many people actually change those batteries when they are supposed to.


In that case, do not trust the smoke detector. How many people test them and replace them (I think it is something like every 5-10 years they should be replaced - read that somewhere).

You have to draw your line somewhere, otherwise you might as well just pitch a tent in front of the fire station.

--
Jerry Peck
South Florida