Originally Posted By: anatol polillo This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Fellow Inspectors,
Just had to share this panel. I did not open it up for safety reasons. At least one of the breakers had visible damage. The rest of the system was a combination of K& T buried in the attic, to Romex in the panels. 80 year old house.
Originally Posted By: jpope This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
anatol polillo wrote:
I did not open it up for safety reasons. At least one of the breakers had visible damage.
I'm curious to know what safety reasons you cited as justification for not removing the cover? I'm not being critical, just curious. Was this an equipment panel or a service panel (looks like an EP as it has no main).
This particular FPE doesn't appear unsafe on the surface (from your pictures' perspective). If you are not familiar with FPE and their wiring methods, try searching through this forum and take a look at the similar FPE panels with their covers removed.
Assuming this is a service panel, removing the covers off of this particular panel configuration is less risky than replacing it.
You need to be really careful putting it back on. While trying to avoid tripping the breakers, you may slip too high into the box and come in contact with these.
That could definitely ruin your day
-- Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
Originally Posted By: anatol polillo This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I did not want to open it for several reasons. My shoes were wet because the floor was partially wet. There was no main shutoff in the box that was feeding this one. At least one of the breakers was cracked when viewed from the front. This panel and the one feeding it were both in need of repair by Sparky
Originally Posted By: Brian A. Goodman This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
It’s always best to get the cover off if you possibly can, but these things can be scary. I wouldn’t worry about this situtation too much myself, because as soon as I laid eyes on it I’d know what my recommendation would be; replace it. I don’t care if the wiring is a work of art, replace the panel as soon as possible.
Originally Posted By: jpope This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
jhagarty wrote:
Anatol noted that the panel was:
-Federal Pacific Stab-Lok.
-Absent a main breaker.
-Physically damaged.
Would removing the cover change your recommendation for further review?
Not likely, however, many people will not follow the recommendation for replacement when the recommendation is based solely on the brand of the equipment.
Absence of a main breaker is common in equipment panels.
"Physically damaged" breakers are an easy replacement and many licensed electricians are not aware of (or don't care about) the FPE reputation.
Removing the covers from these panels, in many cases, will uncover defects that will get the attention of the buyer and make our recommendations for replacement much more substantial.
The common thinking of the public (in general) is - "That only happens to other people. That will never happen to me." This makes it easier to down play the potential dangers. The seller will say, "I've lived here for twenty years and there has never been a problem with that panel."
As home inspectors, it is our job to highlight the potential dangers without being "alarmists." The more physical evidence we have to back our claim, the more we can be viewed as realists rather than alarmists.
(IMHO) Telling the client - these panels are considered unsafe based on research and testing - carries less weight than telling them - this panel is unsafe based on research and testing and the defects I observed and that I can show you.
Again Anatol, I'm not being critical, just curious. You were there, I wasn't. I would suggest to anyone, that if you feel it's unsafe (for whatever reason), then don't remove the cover.
-- Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
Originally Posted By: anatol polillo This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Jeff,
Today I had another FPE. The cover came off with no problem and what did I find? One of the mains was loose. It was not arcing, but I did recommend that sparky come by and take care of this panel.
Originally Posted By: jpeck This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
jpope wrote:
Not likely, however, many people will not follow the recommendation for replacement when the recommendation is based solely on the brand of the equipment.
Very little else (other than brand) is a reason to replace those.
You can still get the breakers (they may not work much better, but certainly not much worse).
You can still correct everything else in those panels: loose wires frayed wires, burned wires, etc., just like you would need to do when replacing the panel.
No, I would not leave it either, and, yes, I would (and do) try to remove those covers anyway, BUT, Anatol said the magic words "I did not open it up for safety reasons.". I have also not opened panels when I felt unsafe doing so. Like when I would have to balance myself on stored items and extend my reach just to reach the cover, much less be able to actually hold it while removing it, etc.
Personal safety is the only thing that will get you to your next inspection, don't blow it. It's not worth it.
"Here lies the HI who would remove the electrical panel cover at any cost." is not what I want on my headstone.
Originally Posted By: whartman This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
A valid safety concern. I don’t know that I would have removed the dead front cover either. Did you notice the screw in the upper left corner? What type of screw is that and how long is it? You never know, it may be a long sheet metal screw that has penetrated the wire sheathing. Always look at the screws in those covers. They are potential safety hazards.
I am new to the Forum and a new NACHI member. This looks like a great place to learn and share information.
