Any Willing NJ Mentors Available?

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1

Originally Posted By: W. HAIRSTON
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Still looking for a licensed inspector willing and able to mentor an aspiring future home inspector? Finished required classes at local votech. Currently located in Central NJ but will travel ANYWHERE for mentoring of 50 inspections. Looking forward to hearing from you!

2

Originally Posted By: phinman
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Not having any luck on the njhijobs site? I do not think many people have!


Who have you called from the site because I know a couple of those guys told me no one has called them and I would like to take them to task.

NJ ALPHI has a Liason for new inspectors and I would love to know if it is working. Call Pat Porzio and see if he can help. 973-403-0779.

Let me know how you make out.

At this time NJ NACHI does not have anyone I can lead you to but we are working on mentored thing soon.

Phillip R. Hinman
NJ NACHI

3

Originally Posted By: W. HAIRSTON
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One person did contact me but I have his name and number at home. I will have to check to see who that was. But I’ve called so many ppl, posted messages, and emailed that I don’t even know if the callback was due to NJIJOBS.

4

Originally Posted By: Michael Del Greco
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At last count there were 9 people listed at http://www.NJHIJobs.org listed as willing to mentor.


http://www.njhijobs.org/mdelgreco.htm
http://www.njhijobs.org/joestaub.htm
http://www.njhijobs.org/engle2.htm
http://www.njhijobs.org/borsellino.htm
http://www.njhijobs.org/corsetto.htm
http://www.njhijobs.org/whittle.htm
http://www.njhijobs.org/fico.htm
http://www.njhijobs.org/sliwka.htm
http://www.njhijobs.org/zenorini.htm

As far as I know none of those people have changed their minds and all are still willing to mentor. This time of year inspections are few and far between. I still have plenty of inspections where no trainee has signed up, other inspectors tell me they have similar availability.

Since the site is free and my time is limited I have not taken the time to personally contact these individuals they are still mentoring or not.

If you have information that any information on the site is out of date, please let me know and I will make any necessary updates.

I did update the site to reflect "While job hunting please keep in mind there are about 140,000 homes sold in New Jersey per year. There are just about 500 Home Inspectors and Associates approved for Licensure. If each of the 500 inspectors performs 10 inspections per week, 50 weeks a year there are already enough inspectors to perform 250,000 inspections per year.?"

In order to provide more jobs for home inspectors in New Jersey it will be necessary to increase the rate of home sales. I think that will be very difficult given the sale prices I have seen recently.

--
Michael Del Greco -Opinions expressed in this document are my own. I do not represent the Home Inspection Advisory Committee, The Division of Consumer Affairs, Office of the Attorney General or any other agency of state government.

5

Originally Posted By: phinman
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Mike, thanks for the update.


Some licenses inspectors have attempted to use mentoring as a way to lock new inspectors into 2 year contracts and non-compete clauses. This has caused many new guys to shy away from the some of the fellows listed. I am one of those who would not sign under those conditions.

I personally do not believe that ones ability to get mentored should have anything to do with his mandated future employment and non-compete with some one! Tough pill for me to swallow since the industry has traditionally been an owner/operated business.

The mentoring program as set up has been a dismal failure and for many reasons was doomed for failure. Fear of competition and the blatant disregard of the regulations by all parties are the two main culprits!

Even though the law says a licensed inspector can only hire other licensed inspectors including Associates Inspectors I have not had one call from your site!

The supervised inspections are even a worse nightmare! Boys do things need to be re-worked!

I think the numbers you proposed are somewhat misleading because they only represent single family homes. There is no consideration for multiple inspections on one home, commercial inspections, condos and townhouses. Also there are many part time inspectors, out of state inspectors not doing much business in NJ and other professionals not actively doing inspections every day.

The above being said I think we are all entitled to pursue our employment goals have then reasonably attainable and let the best man win!

The law has provided the consumer with a new source of inspectors and those coming out of the schools are generally better informed and educated on how to do an adequate home inspection than their predecessors. We need to make the system work better.

Mike, thank you for your contributions to the industry and don't be a stranger to this message board!


Phillip R. Hinman
President-NJ NACHI

6

Originally Posted By: Michael Del Greco
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Phil,


As you know no license is required for commercial inspections.

83% of the inspections I performed year to date were one family homes. Using that as a starting point one could extrapolate the 140,000 single family homes to 168,300 sales to include condominiums, townhouses and multifamily homes.

The above would assume 100% of all sales get inspected. 168,300 / 525 (approved as of 11/15/024 revised on 11/17/04) inspectors / 50 weeks per year would mean 6.4 inspections per inspector per week.

Only 336 inspectors would be needed to perform 168,300 inspections if each performed 10 inspections per week 50 weeks per year. Of course jobs do not lay out uniformly all weeks during the year and my guess is about 90% or less of the 168,300 sales get inspected. These factors may cancel each other out, however it is likely most companies are not hiring because they do not have enough work to keep their existing staff busy.

If you know of anyone listed on NJHIJobs.org who is requiring a non compete in exchange for mentoring let me know and I will drop them from the listing because I feel it is not reasonable.

As far as employment goes, many companies required non competes long before licensing. I can understand why companies are reluctant to spend a year investing their time and money training a person only to have that person leave the moment they get a full license. I do not require non competes for employees. I am sure I am not the only company out there without non compete clauses.

--
Michael Del Greco -Opinions expressed in this document are my own. I do not represent the Home Inspection Advisory Committee, The Division of Consumer Affairs, Office of the Attorney General or any other agency of state government.

7

Originally Posted By: phinman
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Michael,


I do know that their is no licensing for commercial inspections! I point is that the commercial inspections impact the figures you put forth from an availability standpoint. They take MORE time and therefore decreases your denominator of 500 somewhat. I personally do not know the number of commercial inspection done each year. Have you seen those figures?

Also the 140,000 number is an old number. I believe the 140 was upped to 150 and will increase yearly for the foreseeable future. I also think your own particular experience in your business which includes 83% of single family homes is not a good figure to use because the sampling is way too small. I have seen number approaching 200,000 home inspections including condos, towns, FSBO etc.

The contracts and non-competes are fine in business not when it comes to mentoring!

I am glad you think the non-competes are out of bounds when it comes to mentoring but how about the contracts, many 2 year deals. How do you feel about that? Maybe your site should include the licensed inspectors' requirements to mentor you and save all needless phone calls.

There should be no personal gain involved in the mentoring process other the re-imbursement for lost time. This is part and parcel to the EDUCATION portion of the law!

If you asked that all requirements be posted I think you may lose most of those names on the list! Just a guess!

The system is flawed because it has not provided a means for the new inspectors to get mentored outside of their future competition and those who really do not want to see more people in the business! I have been subjected to those statements and criticisms in meeting after meeting! I stopped going to them and started NJ NACHI as a place where we can, as new inspectors, have a common ground!

Assuming that your numbers are correct are you suggesting that no one else is should be allowed into the business because there are too many already? I have heard that refrain too many times!

Limiting the numbers or saying there are enough inspectors already is anti everything employment opportunities stands for in this country! If I want to be a home inspector and am qualified no one has the right to tell me "we don't need you". New people in an industry are its' lifeblood for success and creates the competitive business atmosphere upon which our system is based.

NACHI, for example, represents a new way of doing HI business from the other acronyms and explains it unparalleled success.

Let us in and don't bankrupt us doing so!


Phillip R. Hinman
President-NJ NACHI

8

Originally Posted By: phinman
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To All,


"Become a Home Inspector in less than 5 Months!"

"Name deleted, Professional Grade Home Inspection Certificate Program Course offering is taught by Industry experts, and is condensed, and expedited to give our students a high level of knowledge base in Home Inspection in a relatively short period of time. Our students will have the knowledge, confidence and skill sets ready to be Certified for Home Inspections in 4.5 Months! "

"Licensed Home Inspectors are in high demand today. Now more than ever, Home Buyers are utilizing the expert reports of Home Inspectors to assist in the decision process for one of their most significant life purchases.......Buying a Home!"


"With a vision of enhancing the Home Inspection Education offering in the Bergen County / Northern New Jersey area, Name Deleted, clearly saw the need for an expedited, high quality Home Inspection Education that would rapidly put into the workforce interested candidates with the potential for either owning their own business, and or become employed with the high growth number of Home Inspection Businesses entering the marketplace."

Saw this on a website advertisement for a new home inspection school in NJ. Hmmmmmmmm.............

I read cerified in 5 months, high growth and owning your own business. Very interesting!

Part of the deception played out on potential home inspectors! I addressed this in my Assembly Committee testimony and find it at best "deceptive" but I guess we can't expect them to "cry rotten fish for sale" can we!

Email me privately and I will give you the site!


Phillip R. Hinman
NJ NACHI

9

Originally Posted By: gbeaumont
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Hi Phil,


you will shortly see a provision in our new Continuing Education document that allows NACHI members to garner some of their required ConEd credits by mentoring newer inspectors, we have done this to try to promote mentoring by our members for our members. I hope that NACHI members in NJ avail themselves of this oportunity.


Also I challenge other associations to follow suit and promote mentoring through similar schemes.

Regards

Gerry

--
Gerry Beaumont
NACHI Education Committee
e-mail : education@nachi.org
NACHI phone 484-429-5466

Inspection Depot Education
gbeaumont@inspectiondepot.com

"Education is a journey, not a destination"

10

Originally Posted By: phinman
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Gerry,


In my limited time in the HI business I have found many poeple willing to help here in NJ. I had an ASHI take me out to show me what the inspection is like but that is where it ended. LICENSING IS THE PROBLEM!

If there was no licensing involved I would be no threat to him or his business, but with licensing leveling the playing field I think the old timers feel their livehoods are being threatened. It is most difficult to have a civil conversation today with many of the licensed guys. They just are so PO'ed the law was extended after all these years that they just hate us!

I have received the most vicious emails you can imagine from the old guard! Unfortunately I know there is no room for the parties here in NJ to meet and resolve any differences because of the extension so we will move on!

I am glad to here about the mentoring program and the CEU's attached. Good work! This and other innovative programs are why we are and will continue to be the leading HI organization!


Phillip R. Hinman
NJ NACHI

11

Originally Posted By: Michael Del Greco
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Phil,


I checked NJAR's website and revised the numbers after reviewing the actual 2002 and 2003 sales. Please keep in mind the "estimated" sales numbers bounce around quite a bit, that is why I used the actual numbers.

The revised information is:

There are about 143,000 single family homes sold in New Jersey per year (average 2002 + 2003 as shown at: http://www.njar.com/2004Q1.pdf). 83% of the inspections I performed for a recent ten month period one family homes. Using that as a starting point one could extrapolate the 143,000 single family homes to a total of 172,290 sales to include condominiums, townhouses and multifamily homes.?

As of 11-15-04 there are about 525 inspectors in various stages of licensure.??If one were to assume 100% of all sales get inspected. 172,290 / 525 inspectors / 50 weeks per year would mean 6.56 inspections per inspector per week.?

345 inspectors would be able to perform 172,290 inspections if each performed 10 inspections per week 50 weeks per year. Of course jobs do not lay out uniformly all weeks during the year and my guess is about 90% or less of the 172,290 sales get inspected. These factors may cancel each other out.

It is possible companies may not be hiring because they do not have enough work to keep their existing staff busy.

Web sites that make statements such as the school you describe may not be telling the whole story. I suggest you contact that school directly to determine where the information they are using came from.

The only way I know of to provide more jobs for inspectors is to increase the total number of home sales. If anyone knows another way, please let me know because I wish to hire at least one more person when there is enough demand.
NewJerseyHomeInspection.com

--
Michael Del Greco -Opinions expressed in this document are my own. I do not represent the Home Inspection Advisory Committee, The Division of Consumer Affairs, Office of the Attorney General or any other agency of state government.

12

Originally Posted By: phinman
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Michael,


Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.....

Really, I am not looking for a job but a license so I can do it myself!

I, as other have income streams from other sources and want to do home inspections as an add on to my other work. I really think you and most people did the same thing at some time in your careers.!

At the Advisory Board Meeting I attended in May I was told that "part timers" were not welcome in the business in a public forum! I believe, in their defense, they meant uninsured and unqualified inspectors which I whole heartedly agree. This is a consumer law and nothing else.

I think you know the school I am talking about! Come On!!!!!!!

Michael,

I do not care about the numbers, those in power do.

I do not care who runs the schools as long as they provide value for their students.

I care only that those who can do and those who can't don't! That is the spirit of the law !

I care only that the market will weed out those who can not do the job and that those whose aspirations to become home inspectors have the opportunity without the influence of those who want to keep them out!

ALL OF THE ABOVE I HAVE EXPERIENCED FIRST HAND!!!!!

Phillip R. Hinman
NJ NACHI

ps- what about required contracts for someone to mentor you?

13

Originally Posted By: Michael Del Greco
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“ps- what about required contracts for someone to mentor you?”


Please explain what you are asking for. I do not understand the question so I can not answer it.

--
Michael Del Greco -Opinions expressed in this document are my own. I do not represent the Home Inspection Advisory Committee, The Division of Consumer Affairs, Office of the Attorney General or any other agency of state government.

14

Originally Posted By: phinman
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If I asked you to mentor me and you said yes provided I went to work for your company and agreed to sign a 2 year contract. Is that fair?


I personally would rather pay a $100 per mentored inspection than be locked in for two years! Do not think I agree with a C note because that has been the number floated out there!

This is why mentoring is failing!


Phillip R Hinman
NJ NACHI

15

Originally Posted By: Michael Del Greco
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I have no idea who told you what or why or what they were thinking.


I can only tell you what I do and why. In the interest of full disclosure the mentoring agreement I use is online and has none of the requirements you are concerned about. www.AccurateInspections.com/mentor.html

--
Michael Del Greco -Opinions expressed in this document are my own. I do not represent the Home Inspection Advisory Committee, The Division of Consumer Affairs, Office of the Attorney General or any other agency of state government.

16

Originally Posted By: phinman
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Michael,


I really do not want to post the names of those who required contracts on line but I will disclose them to you privately and you can tell me if I am wrong.

I think in their own way they did not see their company's gain from mentoring as anything other than a business venture! It is nothing more than a fundamental misunderstanding of the law's intention.

Again the law is a consumer law not a "line my pockets law". At our June 11th meeting which was attended by Assemblyman Impreveduto he told us point blank that he only cared about the consumer and that we were on our own when it came down to the finite details!

Thanks !

Phillip R. Hinman
NJ NACHI

17

Originally Posted By: rfarruggia
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hi guys.


On two separate occasions, in a public forum, I listened to an influential inspector ( for the sake of continuity, lets call him 'name deleted' or ND for short) expound about why he thinks that there are enough inspectors in NJ. His reasoning so blindsided me that I am glad I heard it a second time. I wish I could give a verbatim, but this is my recollection:
After reciting the same numbers from NJAR, he also concluded that there was barely enough work for 500 inspectors. It was his opinion that if there were, say, 1500 licensed, qualified, and insured inspectors, the consumer would be harmed.
How so?
If there were 140,000 sales, of which 75% got inspections from one of the 1500 inspectors, each inspector would perform 70 inspections per year ( or 1.4 inspections a week). To make a living wage, ND reasoned, these inspectors would have to charge $2000 or more per inspection. Thus, many consumers would opt out of inspections, and be left unprotected; and there would be fewer inspections for the 1500, the average price would have to rise again (to provide a living wage) and on and on.

Since ND repeated this twice (at least), he obviously believes this. Unfortunately, even if his numbers were anything close to accurate, the basis of his reasoning is refuted by the one of the core theories of economics, namely supply and demand. The way this works in the real world (i.e. capitalist societies since about 1650) is "greater supply = lower price". more compitition for inspections, thus a lower price for consumers.

Now for the numbers
instead of taking the traditionally slow 1st quarter numbers from NJAR, lets look at the most recent figures from Q2, a seasonally adjusted 163,100 single family sales per year. Add in about 15% for FSBOs (according to NAR as quoted in NYimes R.E. section April 18, 2004) and, just to be conservative, another 20% via sales by agents who are not members of NJAR. So far we are up to 225,000 sales per year. This does not include condos and townhouses, which make up about 25% of the housing stock in N.J. ( again see NAR), commercial and multifamily buildings, (a lot), we are up to well over 300,000 real estate transactions per year in N.J.
For arguments sake, lets say inspections are performed on 75% of these. And just for fun, let us presume that every house that is inspected sell the first time, and never gets re-inspected. And that the entire concept of a listing inspection did not exist, one warrantee inspections, or partial (HUD) inspections or anything else.
With our current 500 inspectors, this afford them each the opportunity to do about 600 inspections per year.
That is if there really are 500 inspectors. The most recent information released by the NJHIAC shows about 285 licenses issued, over 15% of them are out-of-staters. I also know many of those that have license do not practice as H.I.s as a primary occupation.

when NJHIAC started, it sent out the licensing info out to 1500 people that they identified as Home Inspectors throughout NJ. One senior staff member of the board recently said that he was disappointed with the current number of licenses issued and applied for, as a percentage of that 1500. ND insists that 500 is not only enough, but exactly the number of inspectors that he predicted 3 or 4 years ago would receive a license.

Another professional organization lobbied NJAR, through their consul, that thier members should only recommend licensed inspectors (this was back in May of this year, just after the extension bills were passed). Why would they do this, even to the detriment of most of thier own members?
It seems on the face, and everywhere the deeper I look, that some influential inspectors are using the licensing regulations not a consumer protection device, but as an avenue to line their pockets. This is not only my opinion, but also that of the vast majority of the N.J. Senate and Assembly.

500 is not enough. And the gatekeepers to licensing (through mentoring/employment) are mostly those who do not want additional competition. There are a few exceptions, I know most of the guys that are offering themselves as mentors on the njhihobs site. These guys are good, noble , responsible, and are working for the betterment of the industry by sharing tier knowledge and experience, as intended by the regulations. Unfortunately, these 9 inspectors are but a tiny fraction of those who are capable of mentoring. And as far as I know, none of these 9 are seeking to employ those they mentor (save one, who reports 'architects/engineers preferred)'.

Mike and Phil, both of you know that I can rant on about inconsistencies and slights, both actual and implied, gross and petty, regarding these issues for hours. But I have work to do, so enough for now.

The system here in N.J. is flawed. This has been recognized, and hopefully is on the path to be righted. We'll see what the future brings.

18

Originally Posted By: Michael Del Greco
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Ray,


Take a look at the URL I provided above for NJAR. The page title is Single Family Home Sales, it does not say realtor involved only. Do you have documentation indicating the information in those documents does not include FSBO'S?

--
Michael Del Greco -Opinions expressed in this document are my own. I do not represent the Home Inspection Advisory Committee, The Division of Consumer Affairs, Office of the Attorney General or any other agency of state government.

19

Originally Posted By: rfarruggia
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No, but if you want, I’ll get it.


Table 10 of the document linked indicates in the footnotes that this information was gathered via the MLS.


Not too many FSBO can list there.

20

Originally Posted By: Michael Del Greco
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Ray,


I found this information from the United States Census 2002, located at:
http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/QTTable?_bm=n&_lang=en&qr_name=DEC_2000_SF3_U_DP4&ds_name=DEC_2000_SF3_U&geo_id=04000US34

Total housing units
UNITS IN STRUCTURE
1-unit, detached 1,794,967
1-unit, attached 285,268
2 units 331,393
3 or 4 units 223,580
------------
Total..............................................2,635,208

If 5% of homes are sold per year = 131,760

5% is a reasonable average number of sales per average year. Some times such as the highest quarter you were able to find on the NJAR web site (with a foot note it is an estimate and not a final number) there will be more sales, other times there will be less.

As previously discussed 1,500 or so people wrote to the state asking for general information about home inspector licensing over a several year period. A whole pile came back as undeliverable and some people like me were on the list three times.

If there were 1,500 home inspectors in the state prior to the letters being sent out several years ago why have they not all applied for licenses? I would hope few did not apply because they were uninsured and unable to get insurance or that they were unwilling or unable to follow the standards of practice that are now mandated. In short they have had many years to get their 400 inspections in and to apply. My guess is there were never 1,500 home inspectors in New Jersey surviving on an average of 1.7 inspections per week.

The licensing information you have listed is far out of date. You may wish to contact staff at the board for up to date numbers. I included those approved for licenses, many are approved but have not paid yet.

www.AccurateInspections.com

--
Michael Del Greco -Opinions expressed in this document are my own. I do not represent the Home Inspection Advisory Committee, The Division of Consumer Affairs, Office of the Attorney General or any other agency of state government.