Attached are photos of units from several condos.

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#1

Originally Posted By: jtedesco
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Quote:
Joe-

Thanks for taking the time for the NACHI sessions; I wish I could have attended all of yours, but had to spread myself into other disciplines plus your Thursday am 101 class was "closed."

Attached are photos of units from several condos I inspected today.

Note the breaker directory and the breaker sizes-how are a dishwasher and a disposer connected to a 20 amp 240V breaker, if indeed they are [each of these appliances has a plug and each is plugged into the same outlet under the kitchen sink]? Since these units have one heat pump each, what are the 240V "furnace" and 240V "air conditioner" circuits wired to? The only 240v circuits should be range, dryer, heat pump and water heater so it appears there are two too many.

Note the one panel shot with the bonding/ground screw in the bottom of the cabinet.

In these condos the entry cable is Al, the range is Al and the balance is Cu. An alum ground wire goes out to the exterior meter/shutoff breaker/grounding.


Quote:
The thought just occurred to me that the individual condo electrical
"main" panels may actually be subpanels to the main panel, which in this part of the country is outside often for fire dept reasons. Outside is the meter group for a building, the ground electrode or two and a main building shut-off breaker. That panel is about 6 feet tall and 2.5 feet wide!

Any ideas?

Thanks
David Prichard


[ Image: http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/P/P0004137.JPG ]
[ Image: http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/P/P0004138.JPG ]
[ Image: http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/P/P0004144.JPG ]
[ Image: http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/P/P0004145.JPG ]

--
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

www.nachi.org/tedescobook.htm
#2

Originally Posted By: Joey D’Adamo
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Re: Dishwasher and Disposer:


Am I to understand they are plugged into separate halves of the same duplex recepticle? If fed by a two pole breaker, then the tab will be broken on the outlet creating two separate 20 A circuits sharing a common neutral. I don’t know if this is right, but that’s likely how it is.


I know that where I live it is very common for the Fridge and Microwave circuits to be on a two pole breaker (multiwire branch circuit), except that it would be two separate recepticles located in their respective locations.

The Air Conditioner breaker is a 20A, so it is likely for a window unit. Have you looked near all of the windows to ensure there isn't a 240V plug under one of them for an A/C?

#3

Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley
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It is common practice here for the dishwasher and disposal to be plugged into the same duplex receptacle, but fed by separate 20 amp breakers.

#4

Originally Posted By: jtedesco
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I consider a missing Main Bonding Jumper as a Major Defect and also call out another Major Defect where the MBJ is installed in a SubPanel.


Post some others that you describe as "Major Degfects" .... ![icon_rolleyes.gif](upload://iqxt7ABYC2TEBomNkCmZARIrQr6.gif)

--
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

www.nachi.org/tedescobook.htm

#5

Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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I have some ideas on this. I suspect the “furnace” is for the air handler and the “A/C” goes to the condenser outside. I agree the disposal/dishwasher looks like a multiwire. This also does look like a sub panel so you won’t have a bonding jumper.


As long as this is all one building and the homeowner has access to the unit disconnect in the main panel I am not troubled that there is no disconnect in this sub.

#6

Originally Posted By: dprichard
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as Joe Tedesco has posted. Most have no bonding jumper but one in a photo had the bonding lug left in the bottom of the panel box.


No problem with the lack of disconnect within the unit; all branch circuit breakers can be turned off from inside and the entire system/feed from the outside.


As to the wiring from the 240v breakers-nothing found out yet but my curiosity will get to me one day and I will do some digging by disconnecting circuits and looking at what I can after judicious use of a screwdriver to check some jumpers and wiring.
I noticed in one unit the the dryer was inoperative but the breaker was "on," as were all others, so some odd things are going on.
I also don't see logic to having the dishwasher be off when a fault trips the disposal breaker and vice versa.

#7

Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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David a multiwire circuit is not about simply having one device trip the breaker for another. It saves wire. You will only have one neutral and one equipment ground for 2 circuits. It is usually used when you have 2 circuits going to the same place.