Back Deck

Hey Guys-

This is wrong correct? I’m seeing a lack of ledger fasteners, only a 2x6 ledger, and no joist hangers.

Where the joists connect on the stair side, is it okay to attach those using screws from the outside like they did, or should there be joist hangers there as well. Just wanted to double-check before I get a call from the builder on this new construction property. Thanks.


Can you get your hand around the handrail? or i should say can you grasp it.

At minimum it needs hangers, and block at ledger board should have at least 1/2" bolts/screws. I can’t see enough of ledger board to determine if required number of fasteners were used…

It needs to be lag bolted or through bolted to the structure and it does need rust resistant hangers and fasteners. I would also expect to see the joists terminate onto a beam so that front board at the stairs should be doubled up and have a double hanger on the one end and be bolted to the 4x4 on the other end. Also if it’s just untreated framing lumber that’s not acceptable. It should have at least one continuous railing 34-38" high. Many local building departments have deck cheat sheets.

Thanks guys. I think I have plenty to go off of. I was also sent a nice link to a wood deck guide that has lots of information as well:

There is no visible flashing and it is installed directly against the siding. Looks like Hardiplank, and their instructions prohibit direct contact with other surfaces.

Thanks Joe. I’m with you on the spacing between the deck, but how far does Hardiplank go with no direct contact with other surfaces. Dryer vent, chimney vent, electrical boxes, etc??? Or am I just reading that wrong?

See page 2.

Gotcha…that makes sense. Thanks!

That’s modern practice, but required? Anyone got an IRC reference?

page 12, 13

Just out of curiosity, what is the difference between a “Deck” and a “Landing”?

or is there a difference? I don’t know myself

That looks like a pre-fab set of stairs usually installed on MFG housing, if so the correct joist fasteners may be there just not visible.

That appears to be a document put out by the American Forest and Paper Association and distributed by the American Wood Council.

It says that IRC requirements are bracketed and the information on pp 12 & 13 are not bracketed and so are not building code and not a requirement.

This is mostly a “best practices” document and it’s a good document, but I wouldn’t call that staircase and landing defective for lack of joist hangers.
If joists are toe-nailed only, each connection should each have 3 in one side and 2 in the other, 16d vinyl-coated sinker or bigger.

It’s hard to see the lags into the rim. If ledgers have less than one 1/2" lag a min. of every 24" staggered up and down and two at each side of each break, I call it defective.

Simply put, their intended purpose…now trying to get a pencil headed building inspector to acknowledge same is another story. :mrgreen:

I would not call that structure a deck.

I wondered that too…are there different building expectations for a landing versus deck?

Is that on the basis that you would consider this a landing and not a deck? The NACHI deck course noted on the ledger side that either ledger strips or joists hangers should be used along with a 2x8 minimum size ledger. So does all that not apply here because it’s a landing?

That’s what my report would state for any type of floor framing (even a shed) for any end of a joist framed into the side of a beam (girder) or ledger. Nailing only is not permitted: nails are subject to withdrawal and tend to split the joist.

Joists are required by today’s standards to be supported by bearing on beams or piers, or by ledgers, or hangers.

IRC 2006 (2009 is unchanged I believe)

R502.6 Bearing. The ends of each joist, beam or girder shall
have not less than 1.5 inches (38 mm) of bearing on wood or
metal and not less than 3 inches (76 mm) on masonry or concrete
except where supported on a 1-inch-by-4-inch (25.4 mm
by 102 mm) ribbon strip [balloon framing only] and nailed to the adjacent stud or by the use of approved joist hangers.R502.6.1 Floor systems. Joists framing from opposite
sides over a bearing support shall lap a minimum of 3 inches
(76 mm) and shall be nailed together with a minimum three
10d face nails. A wood or metal splice with strength equal to
or greater than that provided by the nailed lap is permitted.

R502.6.2 Joist framing. Joists framing into the side of a
wood girder shall be supported by approved framing
anchors or on ledger strips not less than nominal 2 inches by 2 inches (51 mm by 51 mm).

Kenton, in what code book does it say you can support a joist by toe-nailing only? And where did you get the 5 16D nail spec? IRC Table R602.3(1) only provides information on nailing a joist to a sill or girder (where it’s bearing on the sill or girder) and it limits the nails to 3 8ds to prevent splinting. Nowhere do I see in the IRC specs for toe-nailing a joist to the side of a girder.