I have been searching for information or requirements of this flashing when used on monolithic slab on grade with brick/stone veneer. I cannot find anything other than call for it’s use. (R703.7.5, R703.7.8 & Brick Industry Association Technical Note 18A)
I understand the reasoning is for bond break & water direct.
Here are some pictures to help explain what I am looking at. (This is not my inspection, just noticed while driving by this site)
Building paper applied on the brick ledge here. It is behind the sheathing rather than the WRB & obviously the sheathing is too low & not protected.
Building paper exists here but does not extend to the brick ledge for through wall capability. Is it not required considering the size of the ledge? What are the best practices or things to look for if this was an inspection?
Thank you, gentlemen!
Brandon, it is similar to this:
Larry, more like this without the wall & floor insulation board
Thanks Simon, I have read both of those & cannot find if size of brick ledge matters with regard to the flashing.
There is a special rule for how much a brick can cantilever the shelf, otherwise it doesn’t matter, it will be flashed in similar fashion. They may also end up installing adhered stone. Here is a guide for that:
http://ncma-br.org/pdfs/masterlibrary/MVMA%20Installation%20Guide%204th%20Edition%20web.pdf
as you know adhered veneer is all the rage today, rarely ever do I see it done correctly. It’s going to be the next EIFS nightmare 5-10 years from now.
It will be traditional brick. Pallets of it all around & they were tossing sand in the mixer when I ran up & snapped the photos.
I’m guessing the reason the building paper/flashing doesn’t extend all the way down & across the brick ledge is that it doesn’t come in a wide enough roll to hit in one shot & they aren’t going to make up this gap with additional paper or peel & stick.
I am just trying to find an authoritative sources that is clearer than “flashing should be used”, in case I encounter this on an inspection.
in case I cross this on an inspection
Thanks for the link! That veneer is becoming much more common.
[quote=“bfeltner, post:1, topic:156022”]I have been searching for information or requirements of this flashing when used on monolithic slab on grade with brick/stone veneer. I cannot find anything other than call for it’s use. (R703.7.5, R703.7.8 & Brick Industry Association Technical Note 18A)
I understand the reasoning is for bond break & water direct.
Here are some pictures to help explain what I am looking at. (This is not my inspection, just noticed while driving by this site)
Thank you, gentlemen!
[/quote]
Which version of the IRC are you quoting or did you mean R703.4 (2018 version) which is what I suspect? In that citation the following is the answer and the last picture does not meet this requirement.
The flashing shall extend to the surface of the exterior wall finish.
Evidently I was quoting 2009 IRC, oops! (I keep a broken down copy in my truck for field reference)
I use 2015 IRC as almost all my AHJ here build to that edition, but yes, it is R703.4 in that copy too.
Thank you for the response! I think my brain was trying to overthink this and made me wonder if the extensively dropped ledge somehow excluded the use of flashing.
What would you prefer to see in correction here? Another course of this same black paper, lapped and sealed with flashing tape or is here a better product that I may not be aware of? (again, trying to get ahead of the day I report this and then am asked to come back and verify repairs)
Thanks, Manny!
What I would prefer to see is a single, full width sheet of poly used and they certainly can cut that out of the same poly they use as the moisture barrier during foundation construction. I’ve seen plenty of attempts at extending it with improper flashing tapes not intended for that purpose (typically the ones that are not butyl based) where they try taping onto dirty poly and the joint is already separating when the pre-drywall inspection is performed.
One of the possible problems that can arise if they try using poly only on the horizontal ledge for the bond break is that it can interfere with the drainage out of weepholes if it shifts and bunches. With a foundation that high it would make its way out somehow before it reached the baseplate but it can also sit there and stagnate as well. Also how would you secure it in place to ensure it does not shift during brick work?
BTW on your last image I would also note that corner where they did not lap the poly around the corner for proper protection there as well.
Taping onto dirty poly was my exact thought/concern with that. Full width it is.
…and yes to the lack of corner lap. Corners are often a mess, both outsides & insides.
Thank you, again!
Brandon,
I have attached some pictures of an actual, in progress, issue from a mason who is very sloppy. We do not typically get to see these things unless the client calls us back out or we are close enough to run by. I performed the pre-drywall and the black poly was a problem and they were trying to extend it with improper tapes on dirty poly. I’ve been working with the client since and what you see below (inside cavity where bricks have been left out) is one of the issues we are working.
You asked what I would prefer to see and that would be corrosion resistant solid type flashings (metal, etc.) instead of the black poly and this is a good demonstration of why. The local AHJ is requiring the builder to leave out every third or so brick so they can inspect the Mason’s work. Here the Mason is using excess mortar and not reaching behind the brick with trowel and cleaning it off before it falls. In pic 2169 you can see how their work has already destroyed the black poly flashing. So much for the base flashing and purpose of the poly for bond break as well. With a solid flashing this would most likely not be an issue. This particular brick ledge is only about an inch below the slab top surface.
As for calling out the poly as the wrong type of flashing instead of metal you really can’t. The codes do not specify it has to be metal but only that it must be corrosion resistant. The poly is widely accepted and if properly placed and worked with there is no reason it should not work and last a long time.
BTW from the get go I let the client know about the AHJ’s role and he has been repeatedly in contact with them to have green tags pulled and/or reds issued. This AHJ does little of the actual inspections and relies very heavily on the Builder’s Third Party Inspections for most everything. Make sure your clients are aware they can contact the AHJ with their concerns and they have influence over them (AHJ) to ensure build issues are properly handled.
Brandon, sorry I didn’t get back with you but I see Manny is taking good care of your questions.
Larry
The code provides general and minimum guidance as far as flashing in question is concerned. Builders will apply different flashing materials and techniques, and they will vary with different regions. Unfortunately, the way things are built today if it lasts 5-10 years, it’s good enough. Where I am you rarely see much of required flashing done the right way. They all resort to: “nothing lasts forever” when soneone makes a claim their crappy flashing won’t last. It basically comes down to AHJ and we all know how that works out often. It is what it is.
Thank you so much ,Manny. That really helps.
I did not know that. You have just given me some of the best advice/knowledge I have received in quite some time!
I inspect & often recommend above the code. I call it better building practices to my clients.
The reality of most situations is the builder, builds & corrects to the minimum. (code)
The client is free to walk away (at the loss of their earnest money) or accept the product (which they are most likely to do).
I refuse to be that inspector that reports “Flashing missing. Have repaired by a qualified contractor.”…best of luck to you! That doesn’t help the client. You know the builder or sub will refute or try to weasel out of the repair & the client doesn’t know what is right or wrong. Hell, that’s why they hire us.
Providing my client with authoritative sources when necessary (codes, manufacturer’s specifications, etc.) is the best way I have found that help my client get results with builers. Also, being able to describe what product or method is the best & what is the minimum to help them know what to expect.
Thank you all for helping me with something that isn’t even an inspection of mine but I am now ready for when the time comes.
prescribing methods of correction is a pathway to court in due time. The biggest issue is someone trying to following “your” prescribed method and doing it wrong, then throwing you under the bus.
Either I or that statement misrepresented itself. I do not prescribe the repair & do recommend the appropriate professional for repair.
I meant I don’t want to be the guy that reports it’s wrong but can’t identify an appropriate repair thus allowing the builder to B.S. a client into a crappy repair or not having the appropriate information to help a client hold their builder accountable.
If you do this & the client attempts to or follows your advice and something goes wrong, you’re on the hook.