Be Sure to Check Clothes Closets!

Originally Posted By: jtedesco
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Lampholders are not allowed! 410.8 icon_idea.gif





--
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

www.nachi.org/tedescobook.htm

Originally Posted By: Mike Parks
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Joe


Do you happen to know which cycle started this?

Thanx.

Mike P.


Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley
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That looks like an old lamp holder in an old closet in an old home. Were they ever allowed, and if so when?


Originally Posted By: jtedesco
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Not too sure, but I believe in the 60’s.


Furthermore this type of equipment was never listed as a "fixture" and is a "lampholder" so regardless, it was never allowed in a clothes closet after any rule was included.

I am sure that UL will agree, since it was at a Code Panel Meeting of CMP 18 that I was enlightened!

I have inspected many thinking "fixture" and have allowed them?? Opps!! ![icon_rolleyes.gif](upload://iqxt7ABYC2TEBomNkCmZARIrQr6.gif)

Fires can be caused by the materials in a clothes closet that makes contact with the bulb. The question asked is: "Can I use a screw in fluorescent?" NO the lampholder is the porcelain part!


--
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

www.nachi.org/tedescobook.htm

Originally Posted By: rpalac
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Joe, Your picture is of a common “Russel fixture”.


These have been around since the 1800’s in one way or another.


My father built several homes and owned “Major Electric” and was vice pres of Henkle back in the late 50’s early 60’s. It was normal to use these in all storage areas; residential and commercial The ode did change later on in early 70’s to prohibit the use of a fixture without a globe if it were within 12" Horizontally above 6’, and to 24 " Horizontally below 6’.


Sec 410-8


By definition 80.9 (B) it is grandfathered unless it is a hazard. If it is not within this area why would it be considered a hazard?

Enlighten me....(no pun intended...hahaha)

Interesting code section Article 410-47 "screw shell type shall be used as light fixture only.
Well you know those lovely two pronged receptacle adapters you see for garage door openers that are above 8' in an inverted position. that are not twist lock.....I'd like to here your comments....


Bob P.


Originally Posted By: jtedesco
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



rpalac wrote:
Joe, Your picture is of a common "Russel fixture".
These have been around since the 1800's in one way or another.
My father built several homes and owned "Major Electric" and was vice pres of Henkle back in the late 50's early 60's. It was normal to use these in all storage areas; residential and commercial The ode did change later on in early 70's to prohibit the use of a fixture without a globe if it were within 12" Horizontally above 6', and to 24 " Horizontally below 6'.
Sec 410-8

By definition 80.9 (B) it is grandfathered unless it is a hazard. If it is not within this area why would it be considered a hazard?

Enlighten me....(no pun intended...hahaha)

Interesting code section Article 410-47 "screw shell type shall be used as light fixture only.
Well you know those lovely two pronged receptacle adapters you see for garage door openers that are above 8' in an inverted position. that are not twist lock.....I'd like to here your comments....


Bob P.


Bob:

First, I am a book collector and want any of the old electrical books left by your father if you have any extras!

"Russell fixture" ?? I will have to look back into some of my oldest books for that.

The lampholder installed in a clothes closet is a "Fire Hazard" and the open bulb, when left on, that makes contact with various flammable items is the fuel!

Lampholders are not prohibited elsewhere, and the 410.47 rule is a Joke!

We still can buy that receptacle with the Edison Base!

I don't think there are any rules that were added, even in the new Article 80 that would allow this stuff today.

Good call for a HI and you can refer them to the NFPA and UL.

www.nfpa.org
www.ul.com
Joe


--
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

www.nachi.org/tedescobook.htm

Originally Posted By: Gino Conner
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The big problem here is with this type of lamp holder there is no control over how high of a wattage bulb someone installs in it. With no size restrictions or labeling someone could easily install a 100 watt or even higher bulb in the holder, and with the surface temperatures capable of bulbs in this range certain materials will ignite just by brushing against the bulb.


Originally Posted By: rpalac
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Joe I understand your point but don’t fully agree.


Yes it could be changed to have a lenz or canopy over the bulb to rectify the situation. But as it were just a porcelian base screw shell (russell fixture), has limits in both directions.
If you have a closet that is illuminated with one of these how could it be a fire hazard if there is no way for it to contact the matterial. That's what section 410.8 depicts.
410.8(C) say's NO! The fixture cab be incadecent but must be completely enclosed.
410.8(D) Say's as long as a distance is maintained by this enclosed fixture.

Okay, I accept that as code.
But, what if you have a walk in storage room or closet such as an attic or storage are that is 10 x 12 and the center fixture is incadecent. With out abuse there is no way something can be near this fixture. (Well maybe I'm wrong.....I have seen some some pretty stupid stuff out there)
So now the next question...
Do you red flag existing stating it is a hazard or do you allow it under a grand father clause.

You thus far have proven it should be changed.

Bob P. (Hi, also local union 98 industiarl/commercial...were not all perfect)


Originally Posted By: dsmith1
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As a firefighter I have seen fires and close calls with these types of fixtures in closets. People will shove as much as they can on the top shelves, pillows, blankets, boxes and often they will come in contact with the bulb. Quite often people will put in 100 watt bulbs. As a home inspector I have for some time been including a safety note pointing out the hazards of lights in closets, suggesting low wattage luminescent bulbs or florescent bulbs. I may now add the suggestion of a closed fixture. We are not code inspectors and should use our best judgment in protecting our clients safety. If we can come out with a clear and logical reason for our recommendations we can not be faulted.