Did a pre-drywall job on a 3-story townhome and ran across what appears to be a ledger for the stair landing that in neither bearing on a wall nor sitting in a hanger but hung from the beam above with 3/8" OSB.
Not having the plans to work from of course my default reference is the code book which, to my knowledge, says nothing about this type of support for a load-bearing member. There are another half-dozen units with this same layout so no doubt it has been engineer approved, but I recommended having the EOR sign off on it.
Speaking of which, there was also a 14" wide braced wall for the PFH supporting three stories. Yikes. I recommended the Engineer sign off on that, too.
Just wondering if any of yall had seen a beam hung by thin ass OSB as an approved method of support for a load-bearing member or a skinny ass wall holding up three stories on a garage opening?
Larry makes some good points. You have an image further back or from another angle?
The I-floor joists above the notched build-up column appear cantilevered to far out. I get a 4 x 16" oc count which would be 32" without a vertical load bearing component. From what I remember, 24" inches is the maximum floor joist cantilever span.
Good catch! That’s one of those FU issues that just smacks you in the face as you walk up to it yet the AHJ’s and Builder’s own 3rd Party Inspectors seem to just walk right by!
The Building Code (IRC) reference for this is R502.6 (2018 version). Out of all the plans I have seen I do not recall any specifying how a stairset is to be built.
It would be interesting to know how they fastened those members together. I use one of these Inspection Mirror (or similar) attached to a sectional painters pole to reach up to places I can’t easily see to check for these details. Make sure you get a glass mirror as the polished metal ones distort the view to much. It is wrong in any case but the additional information helps display how FU it is.
There is so much wrong there and not with just that built-up support member. I would suspect that the framers most likely nailed through the first layer to the end of the joist perpendicular and to the left of it. To the upper, left of your arrow that nail splitting the first member was probably an afterthought. Hard to tell but it also looks as if they end nailed the built-up members through the plywood coming from the left. That FU arrangement also appears to be supporting all the joists to the left and right sides of them.
Another interesting questions is what was the purpose of the plywood on the right side of the improperly supported, built-up members? That too appears to have been an afterthought as it appears to have been cut after all the framing was hung and fitted around that I-Joist and engineered lumber on hangers. Can’t see it being firestopping since the improperly built-up members would suffice for that.
Another interesting item is at the bottom of the hanger on the I-Joist. That looks like the glues they use to fasten floor sheathing down but I don’t see any above. You don’t always see the glue splooging out but I look for it around the house to see if it was possibly used.
Do you have another view from this direction? There is a hidden hanger. I agree, there appears to be a bearing issue, but I would like to see the backside.
Emmanuel I’m really glad that you saw this and thought to give it your input. You’ve actually been a huge help for me in the past and so I was secretly hoping that you would respond
For those of you all asking for another angle, actually took a video for my client who could not be on site. This issue starts at the 8:22 mark.
Watched the video. Nice work. The only thing that I could think of that would validate it structurally IMO is that portion of the beam (corner assembly area) is being cantilevered somehow (and a long distance at that). They should perhaps engage a structural engineer to review. If the other units are the same, it could be a design flaw.
There’s a drawing for any new build somewhere, unless they are purposlly being made inaccessible. If this is a buld for a client, have the client request them.
I don’t have one from the back side; there is a link to a video in another response that might give you some more perspective.
So that arrowed beam is an LVL that is hung on the doubled I-joist. That is the top of the stairs, two steps above this landing that my anti-gravity beam is hanging from via the 3/8" OSB.
You can imagine a normal flight of stairs that stops at a ~3’x3’ landing, then another two steps on the right side of the landing that gets you to the third floor height.
Design flaw is what I suspect. This one had that OSB filled with nails but I ducked into another unit with the same floor plan and their OSB had only the perimeter of that OSB nailed.
Looks like your 3rd floor landing is hanging onto a double LVL header beam above with OSB, the double LVL header beam is then attached to an LSL beam on one end and double I-joists on the other end, the double I-joists are then attached to the end of a cantilevered LSL beam(running across 3 stud bays and supporting the ends of three floor joists as well) above the side wall of the stairs to 3rd floor…the fuck?
So this is something I looked up while on site. According to TrusJoist, that LSL with your 3 arrows above that empty space you circled can be cantilevered up to 4’ with the supporting end 1.5x the cantilevered end. Turns out, it measures within that spec.
Overall it is such a weird ass design that must have drove some old engineer crazy trying to make this design function while the fresh-faced architect drew it with pride and strutted off head held high when he after drawing this piece a work.
