So your clients dictate your protocol? It’s very simple common sense, would 150 liters or air be more accurate than 25? Do as you like, here most remediation companies throw those tests away and retest due to their inaccurate findings. As I said before, do whatever your career can handle.
The only time I every heard 5 minutes at 15 liters was acceptable is when the environment is very active, such as a lot of visible mold is present. I might take a sample for 5 minutes maybe once a year such as in a moldy foreclosure when the lender wants to know what the air looks like. I try to tell these lenders that when all the interior is covered with mold, testing is not necessary. I guess some lenders just like to spend money.
The reason for running the sample for five minutes at 15 liters can be a good idea because it does not load up the glass slide in the trap. But just like Russell says, you should always try to run the maximum volume of air which the trap is rated for. If you ever get a report with a high particulate or background particles, you better retest at a lower duration, because there is no way spores could be counted accurately. Last year I actually saw a so called mold expert pass a bunch of air clearance samples with high background particles. I pointed out to my client the fine print at the bottom of the report which said that the lab results are not accurate when the background particles are high. Yes, it was even written in the lab report and this gal still passed it.](*,) Sad but true.:shock:
If you take your outside air sample at least 20 feet away from and up wind from buildings and most trees, two outside comparisons are not necessary. Now if you are using a standard that requires the two air outside comparisons, then you need to take two air samples.
Keep in mind your goal in taking air samples is, you are trying to get the cleanest air samples under the most normal conditions, using the most accurate and persistent method possible. This is misunderstood by most people who take air samples.
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James, I meant 2 total samples, one outdoor one indoor, apologies for ambiguity.
Russ,
I do not have clients dictate my protocal, where did that come from? i was responding to your statement
“5 liters for 5 minutes absolutely gives everyone a sign of incompetence. Never use this crap. If your going to start a service, be professional and do it right.”
Russell Hensel
I currently use the air o cel but there are 5l for 5 min tests out there. I am considering trying those cartriges out.
What you missed is me saying my clients dont care or know how long i pump air through the cartrige or at what volume so how would they have any perception on incompetence, unless i was reading the manual right before the test i guess…
First of all I read your statement several times and I must be missing something. Your clients don’t care or know, that is a valid excuse to use an inferior product is your clients ignorance? I thought the purpose of home inspections was to PROTECT our clients and educate them. Maybe that just my mentality I don’t know.
When using this your 100% correct if all is fine, no one will ever know. Realtors will either love or hate you depending on your samples and their outcome.
But now this WILL HAPPEN…I promise you that if you do mold within the next 6 months this will happen to you. You will use one of those crap samples and when it comes back high, you will just forward the report and tell the client to call a “Mold Professional”, because many cannot interpret what they just "tested’. How that makes sense I will never know. Mr. Smith I can do a mold test for $299 but when the lab results come in I have no idea what they mean. Kinda weird.
Anyways, The buyer get your report and call a professional like James Braun in who will then chop you off at the knees due to your level of incompetence and the buyer will then feel duped that they paid for your "professional’ advice and all they got was BS.
So now they pay Jim the mold professional who has to retest, because your test in totally inconclusive and you have no idea what your doing and how to write any type of protocol. So now the $299 they paid you is in the toilet and then they have to pay James $799 to test and re-inspect because your lab (who never has been in the house or know how you took the samples says the level are “abnormal”). James then does his thing and finds not a damn thing wrong and the house and his findings are perfectly within the normal range.
Your name is crap, the Realtor will bad mouth you, the client is fit to be tried (James is happy), but your total level of comptence just went out the window…all to save a couple bucks and 10 minutes.
In all of my reports it shows the machine being calibrated for EACH sample, the machine being wiped DOWN before each sample, the temperature and RH of EACH sample, the location of each sample the serial number of each sample, each sample in its own plastic bag and the COC form filled out.
Many will say that is stupid and overkill. But I never had a client complain, Russ you do too much and do more than needed. NEVER once. I took 23 mold samples today and have to take 21 tomorrow for a bank who was referred by one of the largest attorneys here in town.
To me there is no such thing as too professional…once again, do what your career can handle.
5 minutes and 5ML of air is good for you, sweet…go for it! Remember to keep cutting costs, keep that bottom line nice and high. I mean why even do 1/2 the stuff we do, the client will not know the difference…
I just used the name James Braun because he is a good mold guy and knows his stuff.
Ok Russell,
First, I’m not attempting to pick a fight, but it seems as if it’s your way or wrong.
So If you use a plastic cartrige and suck air trough it with a clean pump and equipment, use the COC form, record all the data, RH temp ser#, etc…& have a control sample and a test sample, fed ex it to a lab, and get a report forwarded to you and then forward it to your client with interpritation… how is one PERCEIVED as you said incompetent? Just because i ask the question, makes me a shi##y inspector, or incompetent, or is it because I’m not Russell? You seem really fired up on this issue. Is it simply the fact that i said I considered trying out a 5 min test vs a 10 min test?
As far as the old “my test says call a mold specialist and its worthless”…i don’t remediate mold (I assume you don’t either) so when you get a high spore count what do you tell your client? Call a mold specialist for remediation, he can use your report from the lab, or mine i give it right to my client for his own record as a late addition to my standard report. he (mold guy) will likely do his own anyway. What my test and your test do is inform the buyer the levels are low and he will not need a mold remediation expert. Kind of like our whole report does on various dwelling systems.
By try them out, i intend to take soime samples with the air o cel, and compare results with the Z5, if they are the same so be it, if no, i continue using a product i have no trouble with what so ever. FYI the cost isnt any different, only save 5 minutes per test thats all. I never try a product, or tool or test device in a paying customers service. That includes anything from a to moisture meter, to lab kits.
I suppose we can agree to disagree on this one.
Cheers Russ.
When I get a high reading I write a protocol. What else would you do? Just hand it to a person without telling them anything? I am not saying I am right, I am saying what works for me.
It took me YEARS to come up with this stuff and I put it out for all to read and take what they want. If you want to use this type of equipment (Z5), PLEASE do so. I highly encourage all my competition to do the same.
I don’t remediate mold that is a fact and I do not hand my clients over to a person who will absolutely screw them over neither. I write the protocol as to what is needed to remedy the situation. If your not prepared to explain the results, the potential causes and a remediation plan then should you really be doing mold testing?
This PROFESSION is not about the quick buck, people are paying you for your PROFESSIONAL guidance.
But since you think it is my way or wrong, please explain what is wrong with my procedures above and why. I am willing to learn from ANYONE. I am totally not above that.
The reason I get fired up on many issues is because I want the profession to get elevated and be viewed as a PROFESSION, not a trade. I want to see the two words Home Inspector have some bite and respect. If that is wrong, then I am big time wrong and can live with it.
Whatever your career can handle. Good luck…and your 100% right we can agree to disagree
Just ordered a Buck Bioaire from EMSL (not a fan but they had the best deal) $554.36 with taxes and shipping.
I current use an AC powered pump and am considering buying a DC powered pump. I like the price of this pump compared with the Zefon Bio Pump Plus. Any major differences between the two? I see the Buck has an adjustable flow rate. Does the pump come with a tripod or do you need to purchase that separately? Thanks.
Buck is the best becomes it come with a Calibrated rotameter. Tripods you can find for $15 and to rebuild the buck is like $150 if something goes wrong. Good small company, good customer service. I have 4 of them and take about 2000 to 2500 samples a year.
Just my two cents and I prefer alergenco as well.
Thanks Russ. I think I will give it a try.
Wow. Some heated arguments going on here. Lots of great information though and I can see how some can get a little fired up due to the importance of providing clients with superior service and support when it comes to IAQ Testing.
I have been getting a lot of Mold Inspection calls lately, and have been doing my best to provide that kind of service. But as other more experienced members here have stated, it takes time to be the best and most knowledgeable.
I have not had any issues with Pro-Lab in terms of time to get samples, etc. Their customer services has been good also. I am using the Z5 cartridges and I know that a lot of the more experienced members here have a disliking towards them. Its very good information to know as I was under the impression that the Z5s were comparative to the Air-O-Cell`s.
Also a question for Russell. Just wondering if you would be willing to provide me with an example of how you break down your inspection reports, and what information you provide in terms of protocols to take after the lab results have been provided to the client? I hope that’s not too much to ask.
Thanks again for all of the input guys. I look forward to chatting more.
Tyler.